Final Battle Starting To Free Aleppo From Terrorists- As Per UN Resolution

You know nothing about Hezbollah to even pretend to put them in the same category as Al Queda! Hezbollah is the legitimate voice and party that represents the overwhelming (90%+) of the Shia in Lebanon. It is a group that has long worked with other groups, such as the Christians, who were often allied with Hezbollah in Lebanon.

As for the Shia v Sunni divide in Islam, that is an important division fueled by a much larger, and more significant, divide. That divide is between something that may be called Iranian Islam (which is the Islam, both Shia and Sunni that evolved under the influence of mainly Persian culture) as opposed to Arab Islam (the Islam that represented the culture of the Bedouin Arabs in the 6th century). Iranian Islam arose by virtue of the influence of Persians on the development of Islamic civilization starting with the Abbasid caliphate during the Golden Age of Islam and continuing thereafter. After so-called "Iranian Islam" became the dominant force in Islam, the Islam of the Bedouin Arabs was soon relegated to where they had come from. And it didn't take long when the Arabs even lost political power in the Islamic world as well. Wahabi Islam that developed, at its core, is meant to reverse all that was achieved and all that went into creating Islamic civilization and replace it with the so-called "pristine Islam" that the Arab Bedouins had first brought with them to the lands they conquered. Which is why it is a completely reactionary and barbaric ideology in its core as it basically wants to return things to how they were in 6th century Arabia!

Of course, and to be sure, for propagandists who are on the side of Israel, there is no difference between Hezbollah and Al Queda/ISIS. In fact, they are on record as preferring the latter simply because Hezbollah and Iran are a much more serious obstacle to their designs than groups born out of the very Shia-Sunni sectarian divide they helped fuel into its present proportions. And you are free to use the labels you wish to use for Hezbollah, Iran and anyone else. But certainly no conversation with me is going to get anywhere if you want to confuse and lump together Hezbollah and Al Queda!

 

Incidentally, since this thread is about Syria, let me post this little piece from the wikipedia entry on the Alawites - the sect which Assad belongs to. A group that Sunnis generally don't even consider Muslims, but which are embraced and accepted as Shia Muslims by the Shia.

Although a very tiny group in the larger Islamic world, I post this about their beliefs to show that underneath the divisions in Islam, you will often find cultural issues which reflect some of religious and cultural practices of the people who were converted to Islam, kept the tag, but tried to fuse the religion with their own preexisting practices.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alawites

P.S.
The Alawites essentially represent a mixture of Christian, Persian and Arab practices and beliefs. In fact, my own view is that they are probably descended from followers of the Iranian religion from the Zoroastrian tradition, namley Manichaeism.

 

Yours and other rating and telling … which I accept as opinion of course. But there are others with other opinion and they are in conflict with your view is clear.

But this is the core point which I always tell and which is the major problem: Who is for whom a terror organization and who not?
This is the major problem which is in my opinion impossible to solve. You defend Hezbollah, others do with al Qaida and tell the same things in core at least about them … further other tell this about ISIS and further further other tell that about other groups and all are at least telling that the others are terrorist only.

Speak with a Saudi idiot for whom ISIS is the same sort of legal organization like Hezbollah and you bash the same arguments each other around the ears!

Where is the solution at least to get this sorted out? I see no one!

I know the situation very well … but again: You say here “for the propagandists who are on side of Israel…”
Aside fact that I’m not on the side of Israel and that I’m against much of their acting … I’m allowed to say something with starting with this words from your side?

“Of course, and to be sure, for propagandists who are on the side of Iran and Assad, …”

Where is the difference please? You claim your opinion with some sort of facts as the truth, as so did the others too … and this ends in the never ending discussion of arguing to death like arguing if a glass is half full or half empty! You understand what I mean?

 

When the Saudis themselves deny that they support Al Queda/ISIS, and shy away from being associated with its practices, even when they are known to fuel their ideology and to have funded their coffers, you can get a sense that this group isn't anything like Hezbollah! The latter a part of the Lebanese government with overwhelming support among the community it represents. A group that has significant support even among non-Shia communities in Lebanon.

 

Sure ... but here you have to blame Qatar much more too in the first!

But on the other hand ... did Hezbollah do terror acts in the past? Yes ... who bombed again US Marines Camp in 1983?
And please don't reason this terror act as resistance act against aggressor in war or something like this. For sure they are backed by Shiite in Lebanon and work more or less together with the Druse of course.

So again at least an act of point of view on things ... for you maybe no terror act and no terrorists, but for others they are and this is the same with all the terrorist scum at least ... no matter if Islamic, other sort of religion or any sort of political terror. Who is for one side a terrorist, is always for the other side a heroic freedom fighter. This was, is and will be always the case everywhere in the world.

 

Qatar is definitely guilty as well. But my focus is Saudi Arabia because they are the ones who have been doing this for a long time, and across a wide range of areas.

I don't agree that an attack on military personnel is terrorism. In Lebanon, the US and Iran (along with its Lebanese allies) were involved in a proxy war. The US wanted to draw Lebanon within the US/Israeli sphere, by setting up a government to its liking. Iran wanted the opposite. What Iran wanted was a Lebanon whose policies reflected the ethnic/religious background of its inhabitants. Sure, it wanted this because Lebanon had a large Shia community that had been marginalized, but Iran doesn't get itself involved in places where it doesn't have a legitimate base of support among the population.

For me, terrorism is attacks which target civilians. While every state has done that to varying degrees, and while Hezbollah has been occasionally accused of doing the same as well, the main thrust of Hezbollah's activities (even in war) aren't focused on such activities. Indeed, during the Israel-Lebanon war, it was Israel that was specifically targeting civilian targets and whenever Israel would agree to stop them, as it did at one point during that war, Hezbollah would reciprocate and not fire rockets into civilian areas in Israel either.

You can say Hezbollah acts like a 'state within the state' in Lebanon and I wouldn't fully dispute that. But that is mainly because the Lebanese constitution was drawn on sectarian lines which promised the main political offices to the Christians (president) and Sunnis (prime minister). The Shia, who are by far the largest community in Lebanon, were marginalized in those divisions. Hence, you either can have a formal government structure in Lebanon that gives the Shia there due representation, in which case Hezbollah can become part of the Lebanese armed forces but where Lebanon's national security policies would be determined by what would turn out to be a Shia dominated government. Or you can have the arrangements which Lebanon has had and which, before the Saudis and the Americans recently tried to upset, were working with huge majorities in Lebanon (until rather recently) all in favor of Hezbollah's role and place in Lebanon.

 

Many believe the Alawites were originally Christians who were forced to convert... and this is why they are tolerant and more secular than other Muslims. Their social status was inferior to the Sunnis, and unlike them they were willing to enter the military.

This gave the Assad's the opportunity to raise their position in Syria and run the country. This also accounts as to why fanatical nations such as Saudi Arabia are freaking out and want to overthrow the Syrian government. It's humiliating to them to have anyone of another faith above the Sunnis.

There are Christian shrines in Syria, and Assad's sister was cured of cancer at one of them, so there is a special closeness between the two faiths... The Christians like the Alawites need Assad's protection. If Obama had bombed Damascus like he planned over the false flag chemical attack, and Putin had not interfered, the Al Nusra terrorists would have entered and it would have become the biggest massacre in history.

Washington knew this and they didn't care. Obama has never forgiven Vladimir Putin for stopping him.

 

Christianity in the area was already fused with Manichaeism - an Iranian religion. I find the Alawite practices, including the fact that they celebrate an Iranian holiday like Norouz while having other practices that are based on Christianity, to show both Christian and Manichaeistic traditions fused with later Irano-Shia beliefs and practices.

 

Hezbollah has NOTHING to do with AQ nor is it like AQ. Hezbollah came about in the 1980s to keep Israel out of Lebanon.

 

Infighting and power struggles among scum does not make either side any more acceptable. ISIS started as an Al Qaeda affiliate. Both are bad.
Comparing these groups to Hezbollah Hamas is a bit of a faux comparison. These groups are involved in a blood feud with Israel that has been going on for many decades ... both sides committing acts of terror. We can nit pick that issue to death if you like but it will not change the fact that arming the "Islamists" in Syria has led to the deaths of over 300,000 civilians in very short order and created the modern incarnation of ISIS.

You could say "Syria was arming Hezbollah" ... so what .. US was arming Israel. Two sides of a Blood Feud where the arming of one side is completely asymmetric to the other. Syria was not arming Hezbollah with sophisticated military technology.

Regardless, this has nothing to do with the US (in conjunction with Saud, Turkey, and others) arming "Al Qaeda/Al Nusra, ISIS, Islamic Front" in Syria.

 

You have probably lost reality. You don't know that the Western leaders constantly lie and the western central media repeat it? You remember lies before invasion into Iraq? Lies when there was a war in Georgia? When in Ukraine there was bloody revolution? When liars about chemical weapon in Syria? Malaysian Boeing, etc. Show as the Russian central media lie - repeating the speech of officials from the Russian President Administration? I know all adequate there and don't lie.

 

Really? Who bombed again the US Marines in 1983 with over 200 death?

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I lost reality?

look into the mirror and see the BS of Putin Propaganda you believe ... then you know who lost realities.

I do not defend western politics, nor do I defend western media, but it is lame and ridiculous when someone is bashing on this by using the obvious BS Propaganda "made in Moscow" and believes this BS to be the real truth only!

 

This has nothing to do with nit picking at least, but only and really only with personal / individual rating of what and who is a terrorist or not!

You exclude Hamas and Hezbollah, other say the same things you say to defend them about ISIS and Al Qaida. What is reason for Turkey (in majority they and not the US btw. !!!) to arm Al Nusra please and how do they rate this scum to be what please?

It was, is and will be always the case that what is for one side a freedom fighter, is for the other side a terrorist! Keep this in your mind and you will understand why it is obviously impossible to find a solution for Syria and the ME to become peace.

 

You except empty demagogy have told nothing, haven't confirmed with the facts! Look, when there was a tragedy to the Malaysian Boeing, the American official from Presidential Administration John Kerry - at once next day has accused of it Russia, without the facts! All free western central media have commented on this false promotion! Iraq, you remember as the US has told lies to the whole world - show a test tube with allegedly chemical weapon... here my real examples of lies of the western acting leaders and lies of media.


ps: I hope you understand a difference when some journalist in yellow press lies and when the central media which form public opinion of the majority lie...

 

Did I ever deny that Western media is lying often? No. But who is sitting in a glass house should better not throw stones to the outside dude.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/vladimir-putin-russia-news-media_us_56215944e4b0bce34700b1df

This is my point… and even you can of course the source I give … there are many about the core point reported there and facts stay facts!
You must only look on how is about Chechnya reported and what is reality there. Try to take your even in Russia by law given democratic right to demonstrate peaceful against something where you are not same opinion as Putin or Ramsan Kadyrov … and you will have bad fun!

 

I haven't found lies from the Russian government there.

Analyzing wind speeds and cloud formations, the woman reassured viewers that Syria’s weather in October was perfect for Russia’s aerial assault. “Experts note the time for the start of the air operation [in Syria] is chosen very well,” she said, reported Agence France Presse.

Good weather - it is good to attack! It not lies.

 

Sure ... but well done smart propaganda included and strange done.

Aside this ... are you denying that Russian soldiers are fighting in the Ukraine together with Rebels? There are sources otherwise telling ... as well sources denying it ...

Only BTW about MH17 issue:

Strange is that it was from Russian side (!) denied that Rebels have Anti Aircraft abilities to shot down the Airliner... so Rebels were not guilty
Strange is that then was simply asked with what they shot down the Ukrainian Antonov's before ... and suddenly they had the abilities, but of course other and not able to shot down the Airliner
Strange is that Russian press claimed that Rebels had no BUG missile system at all .... but this was then utterly refuted with material of rebels that they have reported to have conquered a full battery of BUG missile system from Ukrainian Army
Strange is that Russian Press then claimed that these missiles were not workable and could not be fired at anything...
Strange is that it is in meantime confirmed that one of the Ukrainian Antonov was definitely shot down by a BUG and Rebels celebrated this shot down heavy in the Internet!

So ... lying press and Propaganda only in the West

 

If that was a act of terrorism then by definition so was the recent bombing of syrian army by the americans. Are you saying america is a terrorist nation/group to ?

I gues they do kill more people a year directly and indirectly then most nations/groups can only dream of.

 

You mean this accidently bombing last month? Man ... I understand that this case is for you Anti-US / West people a found eating to pick up and blame the USA again, but when you count any bombing by mistake as intention, you can start to do so around complete world in all conflicts and against all involved nations!

In Iraq 1991 was a case when USAS F-16 bombed by mistake a British APC ... So revenge for war of 1776 for you?

You did not get the core point I told ... rating of who and what is a terrorist or not is no common and general issue and so it will be that one side is supporting group A as "friends" which is for others "terrorist", as well other side supports group "B" same way because their friends which is also blamed by first side to be terrorists.

In general is for you Hezbollah / Hamas defending people the point that they fight evil Israel and so they are automatically no terrorists. Even I don't like Israel politics too and criticize them heavy for many of their acts and handling of Palestinians etc., your rating for Hezbollah and Hamas comes only out of your personal hate on Israel in majority, eh? So again personal point of view form your side, which I accept by the way ...

 

I have excluded Hamas because Hamas is not being armed by the US (Saud, Turkey) in the war against Syria and Israel is a completely different issue.

In the case of Syria the "Moderates"/people who want individual right and freedoms are the people fighting for Assad.

The rebel opposition wants to take those freedom's away. The rebel opposition want's strict sharia theocracy.

Perhaps you do not understand that people who want strict sharia theocracy by definition - HATE individual rights and freedoms.

Perhaps you agree with sharia ... and good for you but, to claim that this is a position that supports individual rights and freedoms is a falsehood.

 

No ... the minorities in Syria which were undisputed in save harbor and which so were in majority part of his regime by filling the higher and middle leadership level in his regime are for sure friends of him.

And no... I'm neither agree with Sharia, nor do I agree with any sort of religion to be part of justice and law in general ... and No, I don't claim thet the ISIS, Al Nusra etc. scum is fighting for freedom ... but they claim it in matter of their sort of Islam they back and also those people supporting this scum do so.

 

It is true that the Majority was "Sunni". Is it also true that all these Sunni hated individual rights and freedoms and wanted strict sharia/theocracy ?

Is it true that all these Sunni were extremists who wanted to force their religious beliefs on others through physical violence/holy Jihad ?

I do not think this is the case. If it is the case that all these Sunni want to force their religious beliefs on others through physical violence/holy Jihad then I have no sympathy or pity for them. They are pieces of human garbage.

There is a difference between 1) having a belief and 2) forcing that belief on others though violence.

Do you understand this distinction ?

 

For you it is strange that the Russian central media from the very beginning of revolutionary actions in Ukraine, almost on hours, every day, lit all events in this country? But it isn't strange when the western central media showed only fragments which discredited Yanukovych's power at first, but then without lighting the events in the east in general, only some - favorable to the new pro-American power? About the Russian soldiers in Ukraine. Why there are Russian soldiers when there are enough soldiers from Donbass? There are Russian military advisers is sure. But about it there isn't enough information. Military don't tell about it as well as the western military don't speak about the western military advisers in this zone of Ukraine...

 

Man ... I did not defend Western Media here at all and I agree that Western Media is not always, but often rubbish too! B U T ...

To attack Western Media and doing this with backing by the other side's BS Media is only ridiculous or do you really believe that Russian media is telling the truth or more truth and not doing the same BS as the Western media?

 

Not correct and a hideous generalization! To claim that Sunni = islamic scum is just always ridiculous!

Also not correct! Correct is that ISIS is only Sunni sort of Islam which hates everything else what is not Sunni … or not following them! But to tell that all Sunni are automatically extremists is again just ridiculous!

Correct, not all but part of them … as parts of Shiite and even at all religions and sub-parts of religions have always extremists inside (also all political too).

For sure is there a difference, but often a grey are between both and here the scum is milling around and recruits like rat pipers their followers.