Free will and sin

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by yguy, Oct 10, 2011.

  1. ptif219

    ptif219 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2011
    Messages:
    10,299
    Likes Received:
    508
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Nice opinion to show you believe in God
     
  2. ptif219

    ptif219 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2011
    Messages:
    10,299
    Likes Received:
    508
    Trophy Points:
    113
    You must believe in them or this thread would not interest you.
     
  3. stroll

    stroll New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2009
    Messages:
    10,509
    Likes Received:
    20
    Trophy Points:
    0
    No, I don't, and don't have to in order to be interested in a discussion.

    I believe the major themes one confronts in one's life are 'predestined', but I believe neither in your God, omniscience nor that every choice one makes is predetermined.
     
  4. FreeWare

    FreeWare Active Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 12, 2009
    Messages:
    7,350
    Likes Received:
    25
    Trophy Points:
    38
    In your god?
     
  5. ptif219

    ptif219 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2011
    Messages:
    10,299
    Likes Received:
    508
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I do not believe Calvinism and I have free will to make decisions. I am not a puppet on a string.
     
  6. ptif219

    ptif219 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2011
    Messages:
    10,299
    Likes Received:
    508
    Trophy Points:
    113
    You seem to think I own God. I do not
     
  7. stroll

    stroll New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2009
    Messages:
    10,509
    Likes Received:
    20
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Neither am I.

    What's the obsession with Calvinism? Childhood trauma?
     
  8. ptif219

    ptif219 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2011
    Messages:
    10,299
    Likes Received:
    508
    Trophy Points:
    113
  9. FreeWare

    FreeWare Active Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 12, 2009
    Messages:
    7,350
    Likes Received:
    25
    Trophy Points:
    38
    I'm only curious to know if this 'nice opinion' of mine shows that I believe in the specific god that you believe in.

    There are other gods, you know. Many, many, oh so many gods.
     
  10. WongKimArk

    WongKimArk Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2011
    Messages:
    6,740
    Likes Received:
    65
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Of course you're not. But that's because there is no omniscient God.
     
  11. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2010
    Messages:
    64,193
    Likes Received:
    13,632
    Trophy Points:
    113
    And you do ?

    The "anything is possible for God" excuse is the lamest of them all.

    Whenever something is not understand or can not be explained it is all too convenient for blind sheep to claim "anything is possible for God".

    You have no clue what is, and what is not possible for God.

    You have no clue what the extent of Gods powers are.

    You have no clue whether things are predestined or not.

    The concept of God, and what attributes God does or does not have, is a man made concept.

    If the future is not predestined then one can not know with absolute certainty what will happen in the future.

    Do you deny this ?

    Perhaps you need to change your concept of God to include reality.
     
  12. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2010
    Messages:
    64,193
    Likes Received:
    13,632
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I did not say "knowledge was predestination" and I have corrected you on this to you at least 4 times now. What is your problem ?


    Answer me this:

    If God says "I have seen the future and this event will happen", is there any possibility that the event will not happen ?
     
  13. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2010
    Messages:
    64,193
    Likes Received:
    13,632
    Trophy Points:
    113
    This is just absolutely not true. The idea that foreknowledge of an event can not be known with 100% certainty unless that event is predetermined was not invented by Calvinism. It is simple logic and logic was around long before Calvinism.

    Second:

    To believe the proposition "foreknowledge implies predestination" does not mean one believes in predestination.

    It simply means that one believes in logic. This is more a conversation of logic than it is a conversation about religion.
     
  14. ptif219

    ptif219 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2011
    Messages:
    10,299
    Likes Received:
    508
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I don't know but it seem you are obsessed with talking about Him
     
  15. ptif219

    ptif219 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2011
    Messages:
    10,299
    Likes Received:
    508
    Trophy Points:
    113
    So you say
     
  16. ptif219

    ptif219 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2011
    Messages:
    10,299
    Likes Received:
    508
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Where did He say that?
     
  17. ptif219

    ptif219 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2011
    Messages:
    10,299
    Likes Received:
    508
    Trophy Points:
    113
    It is not logical for an Atheists to argue about a being he does not believe in
     
  18. Incorporeal

    Incorporeal Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2009
    Messages:
    27,731
    Likes Received:
    62
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Chuckle. Yes! Obsession is a strange thing. It can be displayed in many ways.

    "ob·ses·sion (b-sshn, b-)
    n.
    1. Compulsive preoccupation with a fixed idea or an unwanted feeling or emotion, often accompanied by symptoms of anxiety.
    2. A compulsive, often unreasonable idea or emotion."

    "com·pul·sion (km-plshn)
    n.
    1.
    a. The act of compelling.
    b. The state of being compelled.
    2.
    a. An irresistible impulse to act, regardless of the rationality of the motivation: "The compulsion to protect the powerful from the discomfort of public disclosure feeds further abuse and neglect" (Boston Globe).
    b. An act or acts performed in response to such an impulse."

    Even by my obsession with definitions of words.
     
  19. ptif219

    ptif219 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2011
    Messages:
    10,299
    Likes Received:
    508
    Trophy Points:
    113
    So then why do you keep discussing God? It makes no sense to discuss what does not exist
     
  20. FreeWare

    FreeWare Active Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 12, 2009
    Messages:
    7,350
    Likes Received:
    25
    Trophy Points:
    38
    "Him" being the god that you believe in?
     
  21. WongKimArk

    WongKimArk Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2011
    Messages:
    6,740
    Likes Received:
    65
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I keep discussing omniscience and free will. You keep dragging the conversation back to God. Don;t blame me for periodically humoring you.
     
  22. WongKimArk

    WongKimArk Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2011
    Messages:
    6,740
    Likes Received:
    65
    Trophy Points:
    0
    There is nothing logical in claiming that it is not logical for an Atheists to argue about a being he does not believe in.
     
  23. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2010
    Messages:
    64,193
    Likes Received:
    13,632
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Huh ? it was an hypothetical example. ??
     
  24. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2010
    Messages:
    64,193
    Likes Received:
    13,632
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I am not an Athiest ?? If you do not want to answer simple questions that is fine .. but dont start demonizing folks because they ask questions that you have trouble answering.
     
  25. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2010
    Messages:
    64,193
    Likes Received:
    13,632
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Well for one .. many folks do think God exists and through history and in the present such folks have tried to force their beliefs on those who do not believe.

    What is being talked about in many cases is not whether God actually exists, but of the belief that God exists.
     

Share This Page