Gaddafi assessment

Discussion in 'Opinion POLLS' started by montra, Nov 25, 2011.

  1. montra

    montra New Member

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    Was Gaddafi an evil dictator or a benevolent one? If you read Western media you would probably say an evil dictator, however, if you did some homework would that thought be challenged?

    Here is a list compiled by (socialist activist) Michael Parente. Are these things true? If so, wasn't Gaddafi a benevolent leader?

    16 Things Libya Will Never See Again
    October 24, 2011

    1. Electricity was free for all citizens
    2. No interest on loans, banks in Libya were controlled by the state and loans were given to all its citizens at zero percent interest by law.
    3. Having a home was considered a human right in Libya.
    4. All newlyweds in Libay used to receive $60,000 dinar (U.S. $50,000) by the government to buy their first apartment so to help start a family.
    5. Education and medical treatments were free in Libay. Before Gaddafi only 25% of Libyans were literate. Today, the figure is 83%.
    6. If Libyans wanted to take up a farming career, they would receive farming land, a farming house, equipment, seed, and livestock to kickstart their farms.....all for free.
    7. If Libyans caould not find the education or medical facilities they needed the government funded them to go abroad. For it was not only paid for, but they got U.S. $2300/month for accomodation allowance.
    8. If a Libyan bought a car, the government used to subsidize 50% of that price.
    9. The price of petrol in Libya was $0.14 per liter.
    10. Libya had no external debt and its reserves amounted to $150 billion which are now frozen globally.
    11. If a Libyan was unable to get unemployment after graduation, the state would pay the average salary of the profession, as if he or she was employed, until employment was found.
    12. A portion of every Libyan oil sale was credited directly to the bank accounts of all Libyan citizens.
    13. A mother who gave birth to a child received U.S. $5000.
    14. 40 loaves of bread in Libya used to cost $0.15
    15. 25% of all Libyans have a university degree.
    16. Gaddafi carried out the world's largest irrigation project, to make water readily available throughout the desert country.

    --------------------------------------

    After reading all this it is clear, Obama had to have him murdered. He simlpy could not have anyone show him up in the "benevolent" socialist department.
     
  2. Rotshild

    Rotshild Member

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    He gave the bad example for other African countries, caring about his people. And was too friendly with China. It was difficult to rob Libya under his rule . As I know independent behavior do not forgive from the side of so called Western Democracies .
     
  3. General Winter

    General Winter Active Member

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    A group of western scientists held a number of of experiments and concluded that the presence of oil and a weak air defense inevitably leads the country to democracy.
     
  4. skeptic-f

    skeptic-f New Member

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    Luckily Russia has a strong air defence so the fact it has oil doesn't mean Russians will be forced to embrace democracy any time in the near future. Since you'll be getting Tsar Putin back in the near future, Russia will no doubt be a very happy place (unless you try to complain about something the government doesn't want you complaining about).
     
  5. Margot

    Margot Account closed, not banned

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    Khadafi did those things in recent years... 95% of Libya's GNP came from oil revenues and the concession agreements gave the lion's share of revenue back to Libya. Khadafi kept most of the money for himself and funded every rebel group in Africa..

    For the most part Khadafi was delusional and paranoid... threatening to kill all Arab leaders at one time or another over some imagined slight.

    He had a terrible inferiority complex because he had NO education..

    Remember when he put all the Romanian nurses in prison claiming they injected the AIDS virus into Libyan children?.
     
  6. Margot

    Margot Account closed, not banned

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    Oh please there are 7 oil companies working in Libya and they only produce 1.6 million barrels per day... a third of that is for domestic consumption.

    Do you ever check any facts before you jump to conclusions?
     
  7. montra

    montra New Member

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    So let me get this straight. Gaddafi kept the majority of the money from oil reserves for himself? Who cares? Did or did he not give free education, medical care, and housing to the people? Gaddafi was FDR"s wet dream of a second bill of rights for the American people. And like Gaddafi, FDR was a tad bit power hungry, like when he made an Executive Order to lock up innocent Japaenese Americans. Then again, if you are going to impose an ruthlessly efficient nanny state then you have to be a little heavy handed with people, don't ya?

    As for funding terrorism, I would say that the majority of those countries fund terrorism of some kind. Now with a power in Libya dedicated to Sharia law maybe we can have a terrorist state as bad a Iran now.

    Also, does an education make paranoia and delusions go away or even ain inferiortiy complex? I think not.
     
  8. montra

    montra New Member

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    If you ask me, this is where Gaddafi screwed up. An educated populace is a dangerous thing. Luckily, in the US they have realized this, hence the declining international scholastic scores in the public education system.
     
  9. Margot

    Margot Account closed, not banned

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    This effort to rewrite Khadafi as a philanthropist is ridiculous. I was in Libya in 1969.. and have followed his career since then.

    Saudi Arabia and Kuwait also have economic, educational, housing and healthcare perks for the people... Currently sending 250,000 graduate students abroad.. all expenses paid.

    But Khadafi had Libyan expats assassinated in Europe... He was a vicious character.. That's why he NEVER earned any loyalty from the tribes.
     
  10. montra

    montra New Member

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    What about a country with a strong air defense and lets China drill for oil off its shores instead of drilling for it themselves?

    Will the Republic of the United States also one day empbrace democracy? :mrgreen:
     
  11. Margot

    Margot Account closed, not banned

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    China is not drilling off the US.. Cheney lied.

    Is China Drilling For Oil Off Cuba?

    There were reports in 2006 by Republicans in the US Congress that China was already actively drilling in coastal waters off of Cuba. While the reports were often disputed and eventually proven false, it is generally agreed that China does have rights to explore the areas, but that no significant work has yet begun there.

    http://www.havana-guide.com/china-cuba-oil.html
     
  12. montra

    montra New Member

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    Then you must know what Libya was like before Gaddafi took over. Under King Idris Libya was one of the poorest countries in the world with one of the lowest living standards. Then Gaddafi took over. Let's take a look at what occured under Gaddafi's rule, shall we?

    http://hdr.undp.org/en/

    Public Health was the best in Africa under Gaddafi. The country also boasted the highest literacy and educational enrolment rate in North Africa. Undernourishment was less than 5%. Like expectancy at birth was 72.3 years, among the highest in the developing world.

    What else did you want the man to do?

    Don't get me wrong, I don't like the guy, rather, I'm simply trying to make a point that needs to me made. The people revolted under him despite the utopian nanny state. Why? Is life more than food and shelfter and living long? I say it is and so do the people of Libya.
     
  13. montra

    montra New Member

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    So you would say that reports like this are a lie?

    http://www.americanfreepress.net/html/china_starts_oil_drilling.html

    Anyhew, the point here is that in order for Libya to have the paid for nanny state it has, it is all due to drilling for oil. Conversly, the US insists on ignoring their reserves and not paying for their nanny state.
     
  14. Margot

    Margot Account closed, not banned

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    Libya gained independence from Italy in 1951 because Idris united the tribes... and yes Libya was poor and illiterate.

    Oil was discovered in 1953 and all the oil money was plowed back into infrastructure and education.. so literacy improved rapidly from nil to 25%.

    They had a Constitution based on Italian Law and Sharia law that guaranteed civil rights for all.

    Khadafi threw out the Constitution and ran Libya for his own benefit.. hired Abdullah Tariki and nationalized oil production which cut Libyan oil production from 4.2 million barrels per day to 1.6 million barrels a day.. and isolated Libya until 2004.

    Khadafi was paranoid, vicious, defiant, impulsive and just plain dangerous to anyone who crossed him.

    Idris had been a well loved mayor of Tripoli for decades before he was chosen king....
     
  15. Margot

    Margot Account closed, not banned

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    Cuban waters do NOT belong to the US.. and China is still not drilling in Cuba.

    You do realize that there are 4,000 rigs operating in the Gulf of Mexico..

    US nanny state? Are you suggesting we nationalize the oil companies?
     
  16. Ostap Bender

    Ostap Bender Well-Known Member

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    From now Libyans will enjoy the Truth of Koran, unemployed rates 90 %, no electric power, gasoline to $10 / gallon, lot of uneducated, poor and illiterates. Their "thanks" Libyans can refer to Hussein Obama who was extremely successful in his supporting of Islamists any kind.
     
  17. Margot

    Margot Account closed, not banned

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    LOLOLOL.. you really don't know a thing about Libya, do you?
     
  18. montra

    montra New Member

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    There is no denying that Gaddafi was a statist control freak. So what, the world is full of them. However, there is also no doubt that Libya was a nanny state and that they had one of the longest life expectancy rates in the third world.

    As for the control freaks in the US, many of them would also like to nationalize oil production, as well as everything else. Sure, they could run a much more efficient nanny state if they so chose, but at what cost to freedom? Gaddafi should be a lesson for us all.

    As for drilling for oil, the restictions for drilling are enormous. They could be doing much more. In fact, if Obama had his way they would have suspended drilling.
     
  19. Margot

    Margot Account closed, not banned

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    What you are calling a nanny state is how you rapidly advance education, healthcare and infrastructure in a country stuck in the 13 century AD.

    The Libyan people hated him and they wanted more say in government.
     
  20. montra

    montra New Member

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    The state provided free education, health care, homes to live in, and money to buy cars and farms etc. In fact, everything was run by Gaddafi. They had the best health care and education and employment rates with the highest life expectancy rates to boot in the region. It is was a socialist utopia.
     
  21. Margot

    Margot Account closed, not banned

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    That's NOT what the people wanted.. The second phase is always to diversify the economy and grow the middle class.

    Do you understand that Khadafi was a bedouin boy with NO education?
     
  22. montra

    montra New Member

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    Free education and medical care and cars and farms are not what the people wanted? What did they want then? What specifiaclly about diversification of the economy did people want? Are you suggesting that economic freedom in terms of realizing prosperity on a personal level trumps simply keeping them all alive till old age?
     
  23. Margot

    Margot Account closed, not banned

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    What farms? Libya imports 95% of its food.

    Small business, manufacturing, fishing.. training Libyans up to be doctors and nurses and engineers.
     
  24. montra

    montra New Member

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    I was referring to the list of "free" things I listed earlier. Granted, farms are not ideal to start in the desert, just like in the US the talk of "green" jobs are kind of a joke as well.
     

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