Gary Johnson will lose the election for Trump.

No one supports racism least of all Trump. That's just a stupid leftist meme that at this point is little more than a knee jerk left reaction to anyone who disagrees with their position on anything from garbage collection to the welfare state. The best Trump argument I've heard yet was at HuffnPuff. The line of thought went Hillary lost the minute Naked and afraid replaced actual science on the science channel, Duck Dynasty remained on A&E, and pawn stars axmen and ice road truckers dominated the History channel line up, in short when reality television grabbed all the prime time spots. Donald Trump is reality TV, he is in fact must see TV. Hillary on the other hand is as interesting as watching paint dry and in fact the only even moderately interesting things about her are the things she wishes weren't anywhere near her.

 

The argument is only correct if the drained support is equal from both sides. Their is no indication of that. That fact is that a greater proportion of those leaving are from Trump's[GOP] traditional constituencies.

What proportion of third party support that garners is yet to be seen.

 

My experience is the exact opposite. People I know who were "feeling the Bern" a couple months ago now feel like they got burned and many have jumped on the Johnson bandwagon. I don't know a single person who supported Trump two months ago who isn't still drooling over him or would even consider voting for Johnson.

Seriously, you'd be hard pressed to find two candidates further apart on the issues than Trump and Johnson.

 

You're assuming that Johnson is taking more votes away from Trump than Hillary. Probably a false assumption. Johnson's biggest vote percentages comes from independents. He is at the present receiving 19% of the independent vote vs. 34% for Trump and 33% for Clinton. But 54% of all independents dislike both Trump and Hillary. Johnson's 19% falls into that 54% category that can't stomach either Trump or Clinton. So those votes weren't Trump's to begin with. Those 19% would probably stay home rather than vote for either Trump of Clinton.

Before I break it down further, take a look at the two candidate field race according to RCP. Clinton leads Trump 47.7 to 41.7.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/ep...s/general_election_trump_vs_clinton-5491.html

Now look at the four candidate field, again according to RCP and its averages: Clinton leads Trump 42.3 to 37.8 with Johnson at 8.9 and Stein at 3.6%.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/ep...rump_vs_clinton_vs_johnson_vs_stein-5952.html

An easy way to find out whom Johnson and Stein, third party's candidates are hurting the most is to subtract the four candidate figures from the two candidate field figures. Clinton drops 5.4 points, Trump drops 3.9 points. In the two candidate field, Clinton leads by 6, in the four candidate field, her lead is but 4.5 points. Apparently, the numbers show Johnson and Stein are actually hurting Clinton more than Trump or taking more votes from Clinton than Trump. Johnson and Stein are actually helping Trump.

Among the Republican base, Trump is getting 80% of their vote, Romney received 93% back in 2012. Johnson is getting 7%, Stein 1% and Clinton 10%. Once again, those votes are in the never Trump group. Johnson is probably holding down the number of the Republican base that would vote for Clinton if he wasn't in the race. Or they would simply stay home. In 2012 6% of the GOP base went to Obama, but these voters were never Trump's to begin with. Not the GOP's never Trump crowd. Trump is probably lucky to have Johnson in the race, these never Trumpers are going to vote for him instead of Clinton. As the numbers show, Trump would be even further behind Clinton without Johnson, not Johnson is hurting Trump.

Trump has been his own worst enemy, Trump so far has been defeating Trump. He doesn't need help from Johnson or Clinton for that. His foot in mouth disease of late, Trump creating feuds and making enemies within the GOP with the Bush's, Cruz, Kasich, Rubio, Ryan and more has hurt him. Bush, Cruz, Rubio, et al have supporters who Trump made angry at him through his name calling and personal negative attacks and some of them would never vote for him because of it. These folks Trump could have had if he followed Reagan's 11th commandment, but he drove them away and stated he doesn't need them. Trump made them, the candidates and some of their supporters more angry at him than their being angry at the democrats and Clinton. All of this was of Trump's own doing.

 

Oh how delightfully insightful. You need to report this to the newswires.

 

You could be right. But in truth I'm merely talking about the existence of alternative candidates to the two major parties and how that may effect this election. As far as it being Johnson or Stein, in this context, is fairly irrelevant.

 

Current polling shows Johnson included in the field makes the race closer than just a Hillary versus Trump head to head. That doesn't support the conclusion you are drawing even a little bit. I am not claiming who it will help or hurt more, I am taking the middle of the road approach that it is unclear at this point. If you are however going to look for hard data at this moment, that hard data shows that Trump draws closer when you add in other candidates.

 

Trump will lose.

It will have nothing to do with Johnson.

 

i agree that gary will take votes from hillary because libertarians are socially liberal, and economically on outsourcing jobs with trade gary supports globalization along with hillary.

though Donald Trump is not a racist he is from New York and a New York Liberal, so he isn't anymore a bigot than hillary is in terms of that.

Independents will decide, but they have been working more hours for less money, losing good jobs to work bad ones, and they have the ability to understand outsourcing and NAFTA signed by Bill Clinton and the rich being responsible.

 

What ever works. He'll be my hero.

 

Sure they are. Not only that, they'll ignore the fact that Trump lost. For four straight years. Gonna be quite a circus.

 

Trump, and his father, were (racist) segregationists. In 1973 the DOJ discovered that they had refused to allow blacks to rent in 39 of the apartment complexes they owned. It was only federal government intervention that eventually forced the Trumps to integrate their apartment complexes.

One of Trump's recent comments about a US born judge of Mexican descent was described as "textbook racism" by Republican Speaker of the House Paul Ryan.

Don't give me this crap that Trump isn't a racist because Trump has always been a racist and we can document it from 1973 all of the way up to 2016.

 

Donald Trump employs Blacks and Mexicans, even illegal immigrants for more profits from their cheap labor, if he is a racist then every business owner is.

in 1973 blacks were more oppressed than they are now, and probably couldn't afford Trumps expensive apartments, so he had to ban them until the government forced him to accept taxpayer subsidized payments, or 'section 8'

 

Correct, Gary is just a choice for us that want to vote but can't stand either Hillary or Trump. Unfortunately, there are not many of us out here and the rest either "tow the party line" or use a "lesser of the two evils" approach.

 

This assumes that there are only supposed to be two representatives, each from one Party and that Gary Johnson or anyone else who dares to participate will upset the table. This is why people always support this duopoly of the Democratic and Republican Parties by proclaiming the "wasted vote". On the one hand if you support Johnson it's a vote for Clinton, on the other hand it's a vote for Trump. A vote for Johnson is a vote for Johnson, a vote for Clinton is a vote for Clinton, a vote for Trump is a vote for Trump. They are all in competition. Competition, something many Americans have abandoned in this case, and in Capitalism (crony capitalism).

 

Go to Thread: How PF voters Plan to Vote poll to see how PF posters will split the vote!

 

So slave owners weren't racists because they employed black labor on their plantations.

Racist comments about blacks requiring Section 8 in defense of Trump....... isn't worth commenting on.

It's not worth my time to debate with anyone that defends a racist.

 

Johnson really came across as a completely misinformed idiot with the "what is Aleppo" comment.

Lmao at anybody who thought he had a prayer of reaching the 15% threshold for debate inclusion.

The guy is a total idiot. He must not be smoking enough weed.

 

1st of all, Im not voting for him!

However, he is a smart guy but mostly keen on domestic & social issues.

My only criticism is that he comes across as ""full of himself," which MOST Libertarians do in general...a smugness as in we are the enlightened!

 

The party of "personal responsibility" trying to blame someone else for their failures.

How ironic.

 

Donald Trump will lose this election for Trump!

 

For libertarians and supporters of third parties generally, we're looking to the future, not just this election.

Of course, for Trump and Clinton supporters, this election is the most important one ever and nothing that happens afterwards will matter.

At least, that's what they want us to believe.

But a strong showing for Johnson in this election will create a solid base for libertarians and other independents going forward.

 

Thx for validating "smugness!"

 

unless the electoral system is changed, it is pointless. Even if the GOP goes down and the libertarians replace it as the second main party, the libertarians aren't going to stay libertarian. There simply aren't enough libertarians in the US. If they stay libetarian, they will just loose election after election to the democrats. In order to have a chance to win, they'd have to appeal to other voter groups, and thus abandon more and more of their libertarianism. Sorry, the US isn't libertarian. A libertarian main party simply isn't viable.

 

A vote for any 3rd Party is a WASTED vote.

However, it could only (potentially) matter in a small number of extremely contested swing states--like the Nader vote in FL and NH in 2008.

But, if one lives in place like NY or CA (where a 3rd Party will have no effect) they could vote for Mickey Mouse and it wouldn't matter.

But, it would be beyond idiotic to vote for a 3rd Party candidate in a contested swing state.