God Given Rights

So you don't understand the DoI...

...and if you think it promotes that, you don't understand the Bible either.

Certainly that's one way of looking at it. Another is that by forming a nation without a king, as the Israelites did under Joshua, they were going back to the future.

 

I found this while researching a way to articulate this stuff. A quick glance at the material seems to indicate that the authors have covered many of the bases for those who want to get at the truth of this part of the discussion:

http://www.sheldonemrylibrary.com/BibleLawCourse.htm

 

No one disputes that many of the founding fathers were Christians. But to say they built their government around the Bible, or America was founded on Christian principles, is going too far. Trace the republican form of government, with 3 co-equal branches, to the Bible and you have a case. List the uniquely Christian principals found in the Constitution, you have a case. Otherwise, not.

 

You seem to be saying, don't confuse me with facts. My mind is already made up. You asked a very good question, but you don't seem to be able to handle the truth.

I began with the Declaration of Independence, but if we back up to the very FIRST governing document governing the colonies and it should become apparent. We never get very far in this discussion because your side asks for simple answers to complex questions and denies every fact brought before them. What's the real point of the discussion?

I think for once we should really cut to the chase. America was founded upon Christian principles. You know it; I know it; all the atheists know it; all the Christians know it; every swinging soul that lives in this country knows it. No matter how many facts that we assemble, it is your job to deny it. The big question is WHY do it? WHY make this a daily part of your life? WHY spend hours arguing a point that you can't prevail with?

In law school, students are taught to never ask a why question unless you have the answer. Well, we both know I have the answer. You have to win in order to maintain the status quo. Here is what the humanists, atheists and assorted collectivists have to cover up:

America was founded by a society of predominantly white Christians using the Bible as their guide book. In doing so, America became the greatest nation in the annals of history. As we applied the lessons and kept His Word, America was blessed above all the other nations. If our success had anything to do with atheists or any of the other things you attribute it to, then other nations would be able to show what they had done.

Under Christian principles, America lent to the world and borrowed from none. We sent more missionaries out than the rest of the world combined! There was a time when the bulk of the world's productivity was linked to a single nation... the United States. Yes, we were a great nation.

It is in the best interests of non-believers to dispute every fact that is put onto the table. They want credit for the best years of America because in recent times, mostly through United States Supreme Court decisions, we went from a constitutional Republic to a Federal Legislative Democracy owned and controlled by a few elite multinational corporations.

The unofficial religion in America is secular humanism. Christians are shut out and not a factor. There is no way you can blame Christians for the deplorable condition of America. We can trace our failures to the shift from a Christian majority to the religion of humanism. And, under humanism, this country is little more than a third rate cesspool that owes 20 TRILLION DOLLARS and barely has a semblance of Freedom and Liberty... and if the atheists had their way, we couldn't even pretend to have the semblance. They most assuredly do not want us to have this conversation.

We built this country on Christian principles and the non-believers destroyed it. But, right now, we're both in agreement on one point: the current government is NOT Christian in any way, shape, fashion or form. So, as it slowly fades from the pages of history, at least the Christians cannot be blamed for the condition.

Now, if you're serious about wanting the answers to the questions you first posed, I've taken an initial step in helping you find the right answers. IF we get past the usual bickering and B.S., I'll be more than happy to finish this. IF not we can always just refer you to the earlier posts on this thread. You asked a rhetorical question, presupposing that I couldn't answer and now, before the facts are in, you're telling me what I can and cannot prove. If you honestly believed that, you wouldn't have asked the questions. Will you be content to let this be a never -ending referendum on WHETHER OR NOT the position can be proven? Do you have what it takes to see ALL the cards put onto the table?

 

Let's start with this:

http://politicalpistachio.blogspot.com/2010/08/us-constitution-and-biblical-principles.html

Next time, I'll give you my personal perspective. My last two links should keep most people busy though.

 

So many words, to say so little. You're done nothing to support your argument that the founding fathers built their government around the Bible, or America was founded on Christian principles, Trace the republican form of government, with 3 co-equal branches, to the Bible and you have a case. List the uniquely Christian principals found in the Constitution, you have a case. Otherwise, not.

You have made bold claims, I'm asking you to support them. I'm not optimistic I'll get a straight answer.

 

It's called The Age of Enlightenment where Christian and political philosophies created the concepts
of individual freedoms and God given rights to them.

 

I noticed as I have been reading this thread over again and researching the points that need to be made that a full response has to be built around the character of the founding fathers, what they said, and how our constitutional Republic embodied principles found in the Bible.

Having covered the concept of Liberty and its relation to the Bible, we move forward. One cannot show you a "Christian government" as theocracies are the work of man. In order for a government to be built on Christian principles, it must of necessity, be conducive to certain standards. For example:

One of the most iconic pieces of American history is the Liberty Bell. It originally dates back to 1751 (though it was recast and done over several times.) Inscribed on the Liberty Bell it reads:

"Proclaim LIBERTY throughout all the land unto all the inhabitants thereof,"

That, of course, is a quote from Leviticus 25: 10. The Liberty Bell served a function for the whole community. In and of itself, it shows that the people were being guided by a biblical principle. But, there is more to this:

If the sentiment of the people were to obey a biblical command and proclaim Liberty, then they could not be hampered by censorship in order to do so. That is why the First Amendment had to guarantee a Right to Freedom of Religion. If mortal man could tell you that you could not proclaim Liberty, it kind of made a mockery of what the founders were trying to achieve.

The ability to proclaim Liberty is not the establishing of a religion. The concept transcends the notion that government grants unalienable Rights, but it does not mandate that you believe in any religion in order to have such Rights regardless of your religious persuasion ( or lack thereof.)

So, as a beginning presupposition, the First Amendment is a Christian principle since it guarantees that people can proclaim something and such a Right is not within the jurisdiction of man to bar you from doing so.

 

Every time I give my .02 cents worth and start doing more research, I see that others have already done this. No sense in reinventing the wheel:

http://lawandliberty.org/history1.htm

https://publiushuldah.wordpress.com/2012/06/23/the-biblical-foundation-of-our-constitution/

I think all the questions I've been asked have been fairly addressed by those two links.

 

The Declaration of Independence along with George Washington turning down the suggestion that he become our "King" George, creating a nation as you describe are pretty good indicators of what was on the founders minds. And, I'll repeat my previous links so that we keep on topic:

http://politicalpistachio.blogspot.c...rinciples.html

http://lawandliberty.org/history1.htm

https://publiushuldah.wordpress.com/...-constitution/

 

The topic it 'God given rights'.
What are you trying to prove?

 

Liberty every 50th year is nowhere in our Constitution. And the 1st amendment's prescription against establishment of a state religion does not imply (to me) anything that flows from Christianity.

I will say this, though: The recommendation from Jesus to "render to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s” is possibly the earliest example of separation of Church and State.

It doesn't follow that America was founded on Christian principles. There isn't a trace of it in our founding document, the Constitution, which excludes religious tests for office holders. The word that best describes it, is secular.

 

You have not proven your case in light of the links presented.

 

I've hardly begun to make my case. Yours, however, is already crashed on the rocks and washed out to sea.

 

Says the man who has not read the links, but more importantly has NOT the courage to allow others to weigh the evidence and draw their own conclusions.

At the end of the day, your Rights are secure because a number of people believe in God given Rights and are willing to die for those Rights. Being the recipient of such a giving program, what difference does it make to you whether there is or is not a God? As long as you have something simply because men joined together and made the declaration that Rights came from a Creator, why does it matter to you so much?

Have you ever heard that you never look a gift horse in the mouth? If you could convince me that God does not exist (and you don't have that ability) I might join you and decide that, as the serpent said, "ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil" and get into the tyrannical acts of non-believers.

Without God, man would be left alone to devise his own conscience. Yet God's laws are written into our hearts, unlike that of the animal kingdom. Ignore my links and allow others who have not made up their minds to judge the subject matter on its own merits.. less opinions and commentary by either of us. I'll bet you can't allow others to make up their own minds? What say ye?

 

Let the jury decide.

 

America is not exceptional among the Nations of earth, apart from it's crime rate, it's love of allowing it's citizens the right to kill each other, instead of ending the lunacy, it's love of itself.
Much of the Eastern world considers the US a bully.
It's just like the other strong nations - even the UK - who think they have the right run the world. And your post just proves my point.

 

We don't have a right to run the world, we have a moral obligation to.

We could have sat out the War in Europe against Gemany and went after
Japan, but we didn't.

I don't expect foreigners to understand the concept of American exceptionalism.

 

Caesar was not asking for much. Were the USA merely seeking ten percent to run the entire nation's governments, top to bottom, most of us would be happy to comply.

God won't send the IRS out nor put us in jail for failing to tithe.

 

You could never have let the UK be conquered.

In any case you had no choice. Hitler declared war on the US in accordance with a tripartite agreement between Japan, Germany and Italy. Though Hitler rather stretched the treaty terms a bit.

 

We are living in a time period when our Artistic and Economic freedom can make it possible to truly set in motion many of the ideas put forward by Moses for the Jubilee year..... which incidentally may begin on Yom Kippur 2016 and continue until the day before Yom Kippur 2017.

http://www.politicalforum.com/middl...jamin-netanyahu-lets-get-into-production.html
P. M. Benjamin Netanyahu, let's get into the production of....
.... semi reality science fiction film projects that are partly financed through alternative local currencies, and/or State currencies, and/or community currencies......... that address specific problems that human beings are facing now in 2015?


.......(post # 39).....

(I have the impression that the following may have been written by Rabbi Jonathan Cahn:

 

I clearly said "Why do you think it's mutually exclusive and that no other animal expresses a moral compass other than man...when clearly they do?"

Why do you need to vivisect my question just to answer it to fit your narrative? We can parse this out by animal species if you'd like....or are you an animalist?

Maybe we just have our definitions mixed up? What is it that you consider a "moral"?

 

Some get morals by voices in one's head. That tends to mix up definitions.

 

Wrong question. What you should be asking is why you feel impelled to take such liberties with your paraphrasing as to require correction of the record by yours truly.

 

Don't post nonsense, then I won't resposed, then your position is irrelevant. Oh, I get it, your position IS irrelevant so this is how you reinforce the facade of it being something that people would think as valid. Got it. The more you know. What is a liberty? Since it's so important to you. What is a liberty?