God vs Satan: Who is Evil?

That's right. With a myriad of Atheist vs Christian, god vs no god. I present to you, a biblical sourced argument that god in the bible is in fact evil and Satan, is not. Of course one can simply argue that Satan was Lucifer who was an angel and angels lack free will so he was created for the purpose to send us to eternal damnation and torture. But that's too succinct for the Christian mind and must be argued in detail. In all of the following, keep in mind that this god character is omniscient, omnipotent, and omnipresent according the bible and the Christian faith.

Genesis: 2 [17] But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Now why wouldn't this god character want his creation to know such knowledge? To hide the fact he himself is in fact evil? Was this character afraid that if his creation knew good and evil, that if he were judged by his actions he would be deemed evil? Also, if this god character was omniscient, he would certainly have know that Eve would be tempted by the serpent (who's of his own creation as well) to eat of this tree and thus tempt Adam to do the same. So why have the tree in the garden, knowing the consequences he would impose on them and allow the serpent in the garden? Unless of course, this god character is evil and wanted this to happen.

Genesis: 3 [1] Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
[2] And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
[3] But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
[4] And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
[5] For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
[6] And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.
[7] And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.

This is where the serpent prevails in tempting Eve to eat of the tree and thus tempt Adam to do so as well. Notice the argument from the serpent, that in the day they eat of the tree, their eyes would open. Eyes open to see the evil that is inherent in the god character.

Genesis: 3 [11] And he said, Who told thee that thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat?
[12] And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat.
[13] And the LORD God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat.
[14] And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:

Now here we see that this god character is feigning surprise, of course being omniscient he knew what had happened. This is also the first example of the god character passing the guilt onto Adam and Eve, instead of accepting accountability for his own actions by putting the tree in the garden at all, knowing about the serpent and the outcome of doing so.

Now as to the book this references, this is only the beginning. However, let's see how you "god is good" folk counter argue. See if you're indeed up to muster to carry on.

 

Humans can behave in good and evil ways. It is not surprising that the imaginary deities, and the related supernatural entities, that humans create do the same within the mythologies and theologies written around them.

 

Because God knows what will happen does not mean he makes people do things. God gives us free will, he didn't want mindless drones so in order for freewill to exist there must be temptation. He could have created us all and makes us perfect and just kept us in heaven but what is the point of that.

 

Oh I get ya, why do that when you can condemn billions to eternal damnation and suffering, that's much more fun. And as I will demonstrate in later books of the bible, god also takes away that free will in order to make a point. This god character knew the consequences of his actions and the amount of suffering of a creation he supposedly loves that would result from them, and did them anyway and punishes his creation regardless. The point here is to demonstrate that the god character in the bible is evil, which is quite easy given the source material.

 

People send themselves to hell.

God is very clear about how to avoid it and the rewards for choosing him. It's not like it's difficult to do so I have no idea why anyone would choose hell.

 

And as I will demonstrate, this could have been prevented from before creation, yet the god character chose to damn his supposed beloved creation to it. Again, this will all be demonstrated as I provide further evidence pointing to the obvious, reasonable, logical conclusion that the god character in the bible is evil.

 

I have already pointed out why it is required. If there are no options then people have nothing to choose from and there is no freewill.

 

Which is exactly the perspective this thread aims to counter, that the point wasn't choice, but an exercise in the evil of god. Make what excuses for the god character you wish, the point here is to demonstrate that said god character is evil, using only the bible.

 

It's obvious you have not studied the bible much but if you had you would know that the word hell has three different meanings, similar to how the word earth has multiple meanings. The most common definition of hell refers to simply going to the grave so many people interpret this as not eternal suffering by a lake of fire but eternal suffering by separation from God.

Even Jesus tells us the soul of the sinner will be extinguished. It is also a popular belief, and this is well documented, that the early church used the threat of eternal punishment as a means of fear to control people. The basic fact is that nobody actually knows what hell is. We do know the rewards however.

 

Those aren't definitions, but interpretations, there's a difference. The bible clearly depicts hell as a place of eternal torture, I can think of the rich man in hell reaching up for a drop of water. Of course the interpretation will be dependent on the denomination of Christianity one follows. Going through the events of the bible without the religious interpretation to justify god's actions, will clearly show who is in fact evil in the bible, and it's not Satan.

 

90% of the bible is interpretation.

I suppose you believe Noah actually lived over 900 years?

Lol

 

That's how young earth creationists like Kent Hovind thought of the idea, lol. There's way more in the Christian camp to be laughed at for a literal interpretation than anyone else. For example, flat earthers, creationists, the list goes on.

 

We are talking about you.

You said we should read the bible without interpretations so you must believe Noah lived over 900 years. If you don't believe that then you can also not take the writings about hell literally.

 

Actually the subject of this thread is the fact that the god character depicted in the bible is evil. And with an honest look within the bible, it's quite clear that the god character is evil. Christians are the ones claiming the bible is the literal word of god, not I. I'm choosing to take them at their word for the sake of this argument. I personally don't believe anything that's in the bible to be true. That's why without a religious lens, I can clearly see the god character for what they are.

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Actually the subject of this thread is the fact that the god character depicted in the bible is evil. And with an honest look within the bible, it's quite clear that the god character is evil. Christians are the ones claiming the bible is the literal word of god, not I. I'm choosing to take them at their word for the sake of this argument. I personally don't believe anything that's in the bible to be true. That's why without a religious lens, I can clearly see the god character for what they are.

 

Actually most Christians do not take the bible literally.

I just love when non Christians think they have any understanding of the bible. A ten minute research of pastors interpreting passages different would show you this.

The things we need to know in the bible are very clear, the rest is just there for context. Take the flood for example, it doesn't matter one way or the other if it happened or not. It will not affect your salvation. Now if you want to argue there are other paths to heaven other than through Jesus that would be a legitimate debate.

As for your OP, nobody knows. If it were clear there would not be different interpretations on whether or not hell actually exists as one perception or the other.

 

So in order to understand that bible one must first believe in it and be a Christian? That makes no sense. Based on that logic, no non Muslim can understand the Quran, now you wouldn't give credence to that argument, would you? Of course not. We can understand these texts without believing in them.

I look at the bible as a literary tale, a fiction, and in said fiction it's quite clear that the god character is evil or at the very least the antagonist of the story. That's primarily what this thread is for, a literary analysis of the god character.

 

Christian hell is temporary. Everyone makes bail on Judgment Day and they will never have to go back to hell. It says so in the fairy tale.

 

Jesus didn't exist until the 17th Century when the letter "J" came into use. Before that he was another character.

 

So, he decided it was better to allow billions of humans to fail and be tortured for eternity?

 

This is the mindless nonsense you get from a cultist. The fact remains, given the bible is true, God created man knowing billions would fail and planned to unjustly torture them for eternity.

It is much more reasonable to believe the book is nothing more than Jewish hogwash.

 

And this is the excuse you get from a Christian when he cannot refute the legitimate condemnation of his glorified holy book. Honest interpretation of this book can only judge it as mythical Jewish hogwash. Wearing the rose colored glasses of a cultist has you defending it.

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And this is the excuse you get from a Christian when he cannot refute the legitimate condemnation of his glorified holy book. Honest interpretation of this book can only judge it as mythical Jewish hogwash. Wearing the rose colored glasses of a cultist has you defending it.

 

I highly doubt there's such ambiguity as he claims as I've been to a meet up of Baptist churches from across this state. The preachers/pastors all agreed when it came to interpretation and preached likewise. Differing interpretation between different denominations, maybe. Not within the same denomination.

Although with the numerous differing denominations, Occam's razor would be quick to determine non of them are correct.

 

Satan, and angels do have free will.

 

That (free will) was one of the defining differences between angels and humanity. Unless of course you have a biblical source for this claim. As every source I've seen states otherwise.

 

I'm trying to figure out where did you get the idea that angels don't have free will. In Ezekiel 28, I believe, it talks about how satan made himself into a bad guy.