Gun Debate

Discussion in 'Firearms and Hunting' started by Just A Man, Jan 18, 2023.

  1. Rampart

    Rampart Banned

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    i'm not sure about guns, but assume "outright banning" of tobacco is "the goal." after 50 years, how is that working? similarly, i think "the goal" might be reduction of demand, a valid public health concern,
     
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  2. Polydectes

    Polydectes Banned

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    The goal should be increased demand. There is no health concern that I've carried a gun on my hip for 50 years and there's no tumors there's not even any skin irritation.
     
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  3. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    There has not been a mass movement against Big Bad Government in the US since the ratification of the COTUS until 2013. The USA can come back.
    Be patient. ;-)

    "[P]eople often want to take advantage of you in any way that they can. You've got to let them know who's the boss, and you can't take any crap. People rule in many ways. But whether through fear or respect your opponents, and even your friends must know they can't push you around. If they can, you're not the boss. They are. They also have to know that if they do try to take advantage of you, there is a price to pay. Be firm, be strong, and be fair, but if Someone tries to screw you, screw them back harder than they ever got screwed before."
    The Art Of The Comeback, Donald Trump with Kate Bohner, Random House, 1997. p. 228.
     
  4. Wild Bill Kelsoe

    Wild Bill Kelsoe Well-Known Member

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    How many laws are there requiring people to do a background check to buy tobacco products? How many states, or cities have banned the sell, purchase and possession of tobacco products? IOW, you're comparing apples to oranges.
     
  5. Noone

    Noone Well-Known Member

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    Which proves his point EXACTLY. Attacking him, and his accent, rather than discussing his point is exactly the factious nonsense he is talking about. But, probably, if nothing else, your post proves you didn't listen to the video you're attacking.

    The Founders addressed the issue of factious prejudices in "Federalist Ten". They make the point that factions will exist in a free society, no matter what. Which runs the risk of sucking the life out of government for the COMMON good, OR, conversely, destroying liberty for all. The conundrum that factions cannot exist without freedom but, by their nature destroy freedom, they felt, is best dealt with by Republican Government, where no one faction can gain enough strength to destroy OUR mutual freedoms. We've seen this in that last election cycles where the tRump faction never was more than 1/3 of the population and, though they convinced enough other Americans to join them that they attained an majority for a time, in the end, this last election cycle specifically, they failed. And seem to be poised for continued failure, to the benefit of Liberty for ALL.

    Why do I bring this up and how does it relate to the gun violence plague we are enduring? Gun issues are probably the root of today's factious environment in our beloved nation. And both sides are equally to blame. It may have begun with the Gun Lobby opposing ANY and ALL gun legislation, even any research into our gun violence problem. But the fight was immediately taken up by Anti-Gunner's hell bent on "taking our guns away". Both sides are sucking the life out of Government By The People.

    The Gun Lobby digging in it's heels and the Anti-Gunners penchant for stupid gun law has obfuscated the need to stop the carnage that leaves our children dead in their schools and our wives dead at the supermarket. It's insane, it's madness and it's unnecessary; we have a real and very serious problem that can only be solved if we UNITE against it. We have to be willing to try new solutions even if they fail and, THEN, we must try again. And we have to face the fact that firearms are dangerous, no matter what butt-stock they have or if the fore grip is sloped or vertical, if they have a pistol grip or a thumb hole; they still will kill OR defend equally. WE have to come together and solve this problem, our children and love ones demand it.

    OUR Constitution gives us the right and means to defend our hard fought for FREEDOM and God given Right to LIFE. These are not mutually exclusive, we CAN find a way ... TOGETHER.

    (I dissagree with Beau, btw, even though the Letters AR have been used, many ways, by the firearms industry to describe many different firearms related things. I'm pretty sure when Armalite Arms presented their Stoner designed rifle to be considered by the Army, AR-15 stood for the 15th revision of their Armalite Rifle.)
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2023
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  6. wist43

    wist43 Banned

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    The problem with thinking we can survive this is that the foundation to continue or recover has been so effectively destroyed. The foundation of any civilization is the family.

    The Establishment began using feminism to weaken and ultimately destroy the family 100 years ago.

    That cannot be reversed simply by having a given percentage of the population come to their senses. Humans and society do not work that way.

    Even if a majority rose up against the forces of collapse, they would not succeed in reversing in our course because after all these years, the forces of collapse hold the power. They control the institutions; they control the military; they control the police; they control the media, food production, money, courts, energy, etc... they control all of the necessary resources and levers to stop any opposition in its tracks.

    Even if 80% of the population came to their senses, it is still a losing battle given the overwhelming strength and power of the forces of collapse.

    Collapsing the existing system is perfectly logical, and it's going to happen soon.
     
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  7. Noone

    Noone Well-Known Member

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    All evidence to the contrary. The U.S. is the greatest nation on earth, the U.S. has the most robust economy - even today, the U.S. has THE most powerful military ever to exist - today by a factor of, at least 10, and the U.S. dollar is the exchange currency of the world. We've just had an election that shows the power of the Constitution, instilled by the founders, to ward of factions WORKS as the said it would. In short; There is Nothing WRONG with These UNITED States that can't be FIXED by what is RIGHT with These UNITED States.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2023
  8. Polydectes

    Polydectes Banned

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    I didn't watch the video I've seen enough of his work.

    I don't really care about his points because his points are often wrong.
     
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  9. wist43

    wist43 Banned

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    You're a leftist, so logically you would believe the implementation of your ideological wishlist would be best for society - would be best for everyone, correct??

    That being the case, and I concede we are well on our way to realizing your dreamed of Utopia, there are inconvenient realities that have to be addressed.

    1) how do you deal with BRICS??

    2) how do we transition off the dollar, and not do irreparable harm to the U.S. (it can't be done). Transitioning off of the dollar will be bloody.

    3) what do you do with dissidents?? Are you going to force Christians to accept ESG, but exempt Muslims?? What does that look like??

    A Christian was arrested in Malta for simply speaking publicly about why he walked away from the homosexual lifestyle to become a Christian.

    The religion of Wokism isn't going to tolerate dissent, and will certainly be overtly hostile to anyone who doesn't consent.

    Those people will be forced from their jobs, homes, and ostracized from society - you're going to have to deal with them.

    4) through the transition, rationing will necessarily have to be imposed, commerce will be severely curtailed, and predictably crime and violence will spike.

    How does that transition look?? How long will it take??

    5) and again, more than dealing with dissidents - you're going to have to build dozens of internment camps.

    Your leaders are currently meeting in Davos, Switzerland and are ready to get the ball rolling, but your Utopia is not going to come about without a great deal of upheaval and bloodshed. History 101.
     
  10. Cybred

    Cybred Well-Known Member

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    Neither, all gun laws and regulations should be repealed.
     
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  11. Noone

    Noone Well-Known Member

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    I'm an American. My "ideological wish-list" is, politically, is Government BY the People under the Constitution of The United States.

    "My Utopia is here and now in my beloved Untied States of America". America has always been a work in progress and, since the late 19th century (at least) has been unfairly politically dominated by the wealthy. That's a pendulum that swings toward being more fair and balanced, to being completely dominated by the elite few; as it was in the "Golden Age" and has been for the last generation. I think the BRICS paradigm is proving itself wrong; China for instance is becoming weaker not stronger, Russia has proved itself incapable on every front, Brazil and South Africa hold promise but will never be a threat to These United States - in any way, India has too much political class baggage, it needs to solve that problem to really be taken seriously. U.S. on the other hand IS THE greatest nation on earth and there really isn't any other capable of supplanting our dominance for the foreseeable future. 8)

    We? We, don't transition off the dollar, the dollar will transiton off Central Banking as it's own excess's expose it for the fraud it has always been. Dissidents are factious, our last election proved that our Republic is self healing when it comes to factions, just as the Founders planned. Prejudice's are ingrained in our society but as our plentiful younger generation comes of age their tolerance will mitigate prejudice more and more.

    The U.S. IS the greatest economic engine on earth and is, presently, getting stronger while our competitors are weakening. The strongest "dissidents", like yourself are dealing with themselves by proving to most AmeriCANs what a hollow gong they are and their leaders, tRump, McCarthy, DeSantis prove everyday they are incapable of real leadership. :bye:
     
  12. wist43

    wist43 Banned

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    Well, you're completely misguided, but at least have some sense of patriotism - don't let your fellow lefties see that, they'll run you off ;)

    See if you can follow the breadcrumbs. If America is "the greatest economic engine on earth"...

    - Isn't that predicated both upon "the elite few" from Wall Street and the Central Bank that prints all that fiat currency?? So you're onboard with them there.

    - Then BRICS IS a component of the international banking system. They are all there in Davos at the WEF.

    These are the people driving ESG. Wonder why the NFL, NBA, MLB, and NHL are enthusiastically all about "Gay Pride", racial agitation, anti-CO2, open boarders, etc?? The owners of those organizations are all Wall Street, international businessmen.

    You're onboard with all of that ESG stuff, right?? You're just following where the "elite few" are leading you.

    - Then there is "the left".

    The Democratic Party, the media, academia, environmental movement, LGBTalphabet, etc.

    All of that is driven and funded by Wall Street and the Central Bankers that launder the funding through nonprofits, grants, tax writeoffs, scholarships, public funding (stealing tax dollars), etc.

    All of that is big business, and it all springs forth from the 'elite few".

    So you're onboard with all of their programming there too.

    --------------------------------

    There is literally nothing you believe, or any cause you champion that has not been crafted and handed to you by the "elite few".

    Yes, I am a dissident. I am truly opposed to the central planning of "the elite few", Wall Street, and the Central/International Bankers.

    You on the other hand, have fallen in line and are enthusiastically marching yourself right into serfdom.
     
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  13. StillBlue

    StillBlue Well-Known Member

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    Nope, a tiny, tiny segment would have a reduction of their extreme wealth. Oh sure, they won't need to change their lifestyles.and habits, still plenty of money for that, but the numbers they watch will change. OH THE HUMSNITY!!!!
     
  14. Noone

    Noone Well-Known Member

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    That's how far I read, I'm not having a battle of wits with defenseless and factious opponent; that would be cruel; as I said I'm an American.
     
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  15. wist43

    wist43 Banned

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    Lol, ciao
     
  16. Joe knows

    Joe knows Well-Known Member

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    It doesn’t matter if it had anyway. You go banning everything just cause they used it to kill someone. People intentionally used cars to kill people I don’t see them suing ford and banning the car used.
     
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  17. Cybred

    Cybred Well-Known Member

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    Cars weren't created to kill.
     
  18. Joe knows

    Joe knows Well-Known Member

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    Doesn’t matter, they are still used to do so in some cases. Knives are also used but I also don’t see people wanting to sue knife manufacturers and ban knives.
     
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  19. kriman

    kriman Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    But the car manufacturers did nothing to stop it after it was learned that cars had become an intentional way to kill someone.
     
  20. kriman

    kriman Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Guns must be the worse object ever designed by man. Of all the guns in the US, less than one in ten thousand actually achieves the purpose which you claim they were designed for.
     
  21. Noone

    Noone Well-Known Member

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    If you factor in hunting that's obviously not true.
     
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  22. Cybred

    Cybred Well-Known Member

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    All the wars they've been used in say your wrong.
     
  23. Turtledude

    Turtledude Well-Known Member Donor

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    another bald face bit of misinformation. at the Grand American Trap shoot, 10,000 people shoot trap. when anti gunners post stuff that even a 10 year old can destroy in a minute it shows that the anti gun arguments are generally facades and pretexts
     
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  24. Turtledude

    Turtledude Well-Known Member Donor

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    there are hundreds of gun clubs in each state where people shoot targets-paper targets, steel plate targets, clay targets etc.
     
  25. Noone

    Noone Well-Known Member

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    Ah, yeah. And there are millions of avid American hunters. Firearms are a great sport. Is that your point?
     

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