Gun Debate

Discussion in 'Firearms and Hunting' started by Just A Man, Jan 18, 2023.

  1. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

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    It still just sounds like modifying a weapon. What makes them fundamentally different that you can't alter on any gun?

    It's like a golf bat a putter and a driver are both bats but they are modified for specific things.
     
  2. Turtledude

    Turtledude Well-Known Member Donor

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    ok some shotguns have fixed chokes. My son's Beretta DT-11 has fixed chokes optimized for ISU trap shooting. BTW I never heard a golf club called a bat but then again I don't play golf
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2023
  3. ECA

    ECA Well-Known Member

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    My .22 is more than capable of being used to kill. For the record, I’m not advocating to do that.
    So which specific guns have been designed to not be able to be used to kill?
     
  4. Turtledude

    Turtledude Well-Known Member Donor

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    are you claiming an Olympic target rifle is designed to kill vs "can be used to kill"

    what's the difference between a carving knife and a Randall Model 1?
     
  5. ECA

    ECA Well-Known Member

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    I’m saying there is no gun designed not to be able to kill. At least that I’m aware of. Do you know of any?
     
  6. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

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    Aren't IC chokes used for hunting grouse and dove?
     
  7. Turtledude

    Turtledude Well-Known Member Donor

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    yeah, especially grouse over dogs. IN South America where dove hunting is really huge, we mainly used tight chokes because we were going for the highest flying birds.
     
  8. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

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    The major difference I see been hunting and sporting guns is weight. Since you aren't carrying your comp rifle or pistol through the brush it can have heavy accessories or a wide milled barrel to reduce recoil effect.

    Once I was stacking with my buck mark my 1911 skills improved. I wonder if that was a training gun for a 1911. It wouldn't be really useful for much else unless you get a suppressor and become an assassin.
     
  9. Turtledude

    Turtledude Well-Known Member Donor

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    yeah that is a good point-field shotguns tend to be lighter than competition ones

    I own 2 Remington 700 rifles in 308. one is the PSS-Police sniper rifle-one of the heaviest in the 700 family. I also own one of the "mountain guns" several pounds less-designed for hunting goats and rams in hilly country where carrying a heavy rifle is a PITA
     
  10. Turtledude

    Turtledude Well-Known Member Donor

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    is this rifle here designed to kill?
    326472171_1209789196603125_1677249622605787508_n-2.jpg
     
  11. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

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    But they are just modified weapons much like a race car is lighter than a standard sedan but it's just a modified vehicle
     
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  12. Turtledude

    Turtledude Well-Known Member Donor

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    they are functionally similar but designed for very different purposes
     
  13. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

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    Sure but fundamentally they are the same.
     
  14. Turtledude

    Turtledude Well-Known Member Donor

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    in the sense that they both fire 308 rounds through a bolt action design
     
  15. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

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    Yeah you could use a hunting rifle for competition shooting and vise versa.
     
  16. Turtledude

    Turtledude Well-Known Member Donor

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    target rifles are more useful as hunting rifles than the vice versa, I can kill woodchucks with an Anschutz free rifle but a remington 22 pump gun is not accurate enough to shoot 3 Position ISU rifle with competitively .
     
  17. Par10

    Par10 Well-Known Member

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    Alec Baldwin?
     
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  18. Turtledude

    Turtledude Well-Known Member Donor

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    well most illegal shootings are perpetrated by those who cannot legally own guns and in many cases the guns are stolen so the shooter really isn't the owner. In some urban areas, mopes stash guns for confederates to use and ownership is not in play when the gun is used for a crime
     
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  19. Par10

    Par10 Well-Known Member

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    The anti-gun kooks should call them assault braces so that they could ban them easier. Evidently we want to start banning guns by starting with the "least likely to kill someone" items and go from there.
     
  20. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

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    Fair enough.
     
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  21. DEFinning

    DEFinning Well-Known Member Donor

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    True, but there is plenty of precedent for using the activity some object is intended for, in the name for the object: a parallel would be the "battering ram."
     
  22. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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    But both of them are just objects.

    How about the gun known as the Colt peacemaker?
     
  23. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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    Take a slingshot for example. Add a wrist brace to it and suddenly it's a wrist rocket ! It sounds so much more scary and suddenly you have an assault slingshot!

    But as someone who is pretty damn handy with a slingshot I can tell you from personal experience that you don't really need a wrist brace unless you're shooting extremely heavy bands.

    And if you can't use a slingshot without a wrist brace worth a damn that wrist brace is not going to make you a better shot
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2023
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  24. DEFinning

    DEFinning Well-Known Member Donor

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    This isn't exactly what you are talking about, because it doesn't fire bullets, and I'm pretty sure it won't serve your intended argument, but I just wanted to insert this into the conversation, as a gun type designed weapon, which could be quite effective for self defense (at close range: effective range from as little as 60 feet, to up to 175, depending on the model), and yet is not made to kill. It is the Byrna Launcher, and it can fire an array of projectiles, from hard plastic balls, those loaded with pepper spray, or pepper spray, combined with tear gas.

    https://byrna.com/?utm_source=Youtu...nF0HmHB8WuErBUTzUG7YBql6OxMZI_rYaAmETEALw_wcB


    BYRNA SD PEPPER KIT
    Regular price
    $399.99 USD

    Legal in 50 States*, No Background Checks, No Waiting Periods, No Permits Required, Shipped Directly to Your Door!

    Byrna supports our heroes. Military, First-Responders and Teachers receive 10% off. (*restrictions apply, discount taken at checkout)

    Description
    The Byrna SD (Self Defense) is the successor of the Byrna HD. It has been re-engineered for optimal performance. Powered by compressed air (CO2), the Byrna SD shoots .68 caliber round kinetic and/or chemical irritant projectiles that can disable a threat from up to 60-feet away. It is an incredibly powerful and non-lethal self-defense weapon.

    The Byrna SD is not classified as a firearm therefore does not require a permit or background check to own. Must be 18 or older to purchase.

    Features of Byrna SD Kinetic Kit:

    - Up to 300 feet per second average projectile speed
    - Ergonomic honeycomb grip for better control in all conditions
    - Improved sights for faster target acquisition
    - Straight trigger with a 6.5 lb. trigger pull weight on the second shot and smoother press
    - Ambidextrous safe/fire switch that allows for easy toggling for both left-handed and right-handed individuals

    What's Included:

    Our Byrna SD Pepper Kit comes in a protective, zippered carrying case with everything you need to get started:

    - Up to 300 feet per second average projectile speed
    - One (1) Byrna SD Launcher
    - Two (2) 5-Round Magazines
    - Two (2) Byrna 8-Gram CO2 Cylinders
    - One (1) 5-Round Tube of Byrna Kinetic Projectiles
    - One (1) 5-Round Tube of Byrna Eco-Kinetic Projectiles
    - One (1) 5-Round Tube of Byrna Pepper Projectiles
    - One (1) #byrnanation Medallion







    Introducing the next level of home-defense badassery. Previously available only to law enforcement agencies, the re-engineered Mission 4 by Byrna is the ultimate high-capacity solution to defend your property or just having fun in the backyard.

    THE MISSION 4 WOW FACTORS | RE-ENGINEERED FOR MAXIMUM
    PERFORMANCE & CAPACITY

    - 325 average FPS
    - 50-60 rounds per 88g CO2 canister depending on environmental conditions
    - 100 ft effective range
    - 2-year warranty
    - Under 32" long
    - Easy to use and fun to shoot





    Mission 4 Bundle includes the following:

    - Mission 4 launcher (with CO2 adapter + CO2 stock)
    - Byrna branded Rifle bag ($100 Value)
    - 2x 19 rd coupled magazines
    - Small accessory kit (extra o-rings, allen key, lubricant)
    - 2x twin pack of 88g CO2 cartridges (4 cartridges total)
    - 2x 95ct of Byrna Kinetic

    Product Features:

    - Fully pneumatic operation, does not use batteries or electronics
    - High-performance in-line bolt system
    - Durable magnesium receiver
    - AR-15 style M-LOK shroud with 4-sided picatinny rails
    - Integrated sling mounts
    - Flip-up adjustable front and rear sights
    - Vertical fore grip
    - Two position external selector switch: Safe or Firing Mode
    - Includes one orange and one black 19 round magazines with magazine coupler, perfect to run Byrna Kinetic in the black mag and Byrna Pepper in the orange mag
    - Uses 88g CO2 cartridge, allows the unit to always be ready without concern for high pressure air tanks leaking or needing to get them refilled
    - High visibility less lethal orange coloration for easy identification
    - Anodized orange fully aluminum charging handle
    - High performance anodized orange barrel with muzzle brake
    - Gas On/Off slide valve allows the user to disconnect the CO2 source from the launcher
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2023
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  25. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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    all that is basically is a scaled down paintball gun.
    I had considered one of those myself but I'm not dropping 400 bucks on it. I have a semi-automatic Walther replica BB pistol that holds 13 BBS as fast as you can pull the trigger. I imagine it would be just as effective as that device. Because those bbs sting and there's more where that came from.

    But both of them have one very significant drawback... Actually two....

    The first one is the issue of the CO2 cartridge. If you leave it punctured and ready to go there's a good chance the seals are eventually going to leak.

    The second and more significant issue.... If someone pulls out a real gun then you're really screwed.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2023

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