Tell me Bendor, If one does not engage with ones enemies but is completely restricted by both morality and international law in using military might to eradicate them (either thru mass murder or expulsion) how is a conflict to be resolved? Does one merely sit around and hope that sooner or later the enemy will simply give up? that they will have some sort of religious ephiphany and embrace their enemies? This ridiculous notion that there can be no engagement with one's enemies because of the tactics they were essentially forced to use (you know - asymetrical warfare and resistence to belligerent military occupation) is merely window dressing for maintaining the status quo which continues to benefit Israel at the expense of the palestinians.
Until the IRA disarmed no peace talks could come about. Mr. Abbas has stated he will not accept a Jewish state. Hamas has said they will never stop until Israel as a Jewish state is no more. So will Israel talk peace with? Israel in 1949 took in 35,000 Palestinian refugees after it offered to take in 100,000 to try forge peace with the Arab world. The Arab world in response to that overture then expelled 900,000 Jews from Arab countries resulting in 700,000 of them being forced to flee to Israel. They in fact in that act of spite for losing a war they started with Israel to wipe Israel out, created more Jewish than Palestinian refugees. Since that date, the Arab League of nations refuse to take in Palestinians as citizens. Their speeches now lie in public domain from 1949 stating they would imprison Palestinians in camps and use them as hostages to the world and keep them imprisoned in these camps until the world disbanded Israel. Where are those nations today who seized the Palestinians they told to leave Israel because the war to wipe out the Jews would be brief and they could then return? Well? Where are they? Not one leader of these nations dare state that their countries created the refugee camps and why. Not one. Even the former Syrian President admitted in his memoirs in 1973 before he died the Arab League told the Palestinians to flee, then when they Arab Leagues lost their war, imprisoned these Palestinians out of spite for losing the war. The Arab League of Nations to this day will not take moral responsibility for what it did. Its leaders have been corrupt, violent and used Israel as a scapegoat to detract from their own economic failures. The Arab League of Nations treats Palestinians as less than dogs. Those Palestinians that chose to remain in Israel now have the highest standard of living of any Arab in the Middle East. Those Palestinians have rights no Jew today still in an Arab country has. What does this Arab League of nations now do? It remained silent over the genocide in Sudan. It remains silent over the civil war in Syria. It remained silent with the mass slaughter of kurds. It has nothing to say about the fact that Beduin Arabs are not able to assimilate into the urbanization of the modern Arab world.. It has done nothing to assist Palestinians or advance social justice. It remains silent as its corrupt leaders rip off their people and create internal civil uprisings. It offers no vision for its own people. Since 1949 the denial of the Jewish state by the Arab League of Nations has never ended Who do moderates both Israeli and Palestinian now turn to? Abbas who cheers on his fellow PA members chanting death to Israel and embraces Hamas? Who? Hezbollah? Iran? Erdogan? Obama? Putin? There is no one at this time.
No, am not one of them... but my sense of duty and "fair play" dictates that “YOU” have failed to come to term with the worst kinds of meddled minds and their 'FAUX' historical knowledge. What you are trying to convey on this board is some kind of a LIBERAL philosophy... a SELFISH one at best that should not be imposed nor suggested to a beleaguered State surrounded by enemies… "PLEASE DO NOT JUDGE THE MIDDLE EAST WITH AMERICAN/CANADIAN NORMS!” Your retort enhances the fact that you do not know Israel’s Arab enemies, you have no idea of their behavior, their psyche, their beliefs, their ideology, their incited delusions, their inherent propensity for lying [lying is not a sin in Islam] their intense sense for instigation, etc., How do you propose that Israel survives? Do you propose that the Israelis do it on their own while you sit on the bleachers watching the sun go down? Stones kill and have killed and maimed... Sniper targeted people is a premeditated murder… Period! You have to also understand that in a “PEACE PROCESS” none of these lethal actions are orchestrated as an arm-twisting method in a civilized society. As far as how to remedy to the present situation... If it had been up to me, I would have finished the whole question faster than the position Lima Peru found itself not so long ago… The Peace Process is not a ONE WAY STREET where the Jews sit at the table while the Arabs engage in a systematic ambush of civilian vehicles and murder the occupants... People that are naïve and are willing to accept any canard, people of your stripe who rush to come to terms with someone that started his premise by calling all Israeli Jews names… You deem to be doubly naïve to be willing to forgive and forget the actions of these entrenched Jew-Haters on this Forum because (from my point of venture)they disarmed you with some logic… In reality the offended party (the insulted Jewish People), are the ones to empathize with. All these contributors are wise enough and learned enough in these tit for tat sequences to apply the "Napoleonic Tactics" of divide and conquer and you naively fell for it. In your “naiveté” you are ready to accept at any price this “false Sense of Security” the quasi “Peace” that our enemies are falsely pretending to be extending to Israel… and this is something that bothers me a great deal… something that I cannot come to terms with… you are being deluded, and to some extend… your action in this regard deteriorate to the level of silliness. Best regards HB
A state for one people this is their words. Watch this clip. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcbqSUMnZ8A
You are basically surrounded by sunni muslims. Taqqiya is shia designed to protect a shiite from sunni persecution. Lying is actually a sin. But surely you should have known that if you are so knowledgeable of your arab enemies. It seems you express your hatreds and biases by doing exactly the same thing as the arabs do when expressing theirs. Its sad that you don't see that since you believe so whole heartedly that justice is on your side (and maybe even god). I agree there have been a very few instances of permanent damage by stone throwing children. Far more from Israeli rubber bullets, I believe. Snipers targeting people deliberately is murder, no question. But that works both ways as well. Shall we exchange videos where you show a palestinian "terrorist" sniping an Israeli and I'll show you an Israeli "settler" shooting an unarmed palestinian? Such deliberate and co-ordinated attacks are not characteristic of a civilized society, but to just isn't the case in the Occupied Territories. You consistently fail to accept the fact your country is engaged in a belligerent military occupation of palestinian land. sorry I don't get the reference. I totally agree that the peace process is not a one way street. Particularly in an atmosphere that is absent any trust. That the palestinians keep insisting on unilateral Israeli action before even attempting to resolve differences is ludicrous. Disarmed me with some logic? I have actively contronted and fought jew haters with facts, evidence and superiour knowledge for decades. I have no illusions about the attitudes of many palestinians, just as I have no illusions about the attitudes of many Israelis. You have always attempted to totally and completely absolve Israel of any responsibilty for indulging in provocation and routinely committing abuses. I am more of a realist, and recognize that human nature DICTATES that these instances will occur. If you wish to debate the number of incidents or the severity or inbalance between the sides, okay, let's look at the numbers. If you wish to (as you usually do) provide nothing but a series of anecdotes that you then use to generalize, then I will challenge you as I have consistently done. As to "false sense of security", I have REPEATEDLY stated that in the absence of trust, and the obvious serious concerns for Israeli national security, any unilateral withdrawal is a non-starter. I have REPEATEDLY taken the position that those national security concerns are legitimate and many can be seen by the simple expediency of perusing a topological map of the areas in question. In your completely binary perspective you reject any percieved criticism no matter how legitimate that criticism may be or how extensive the evidence to support it is. But don't attempt to rattle my cage by accusing me that after all these years of standing up for the nation of Israel, and being a rabid opponent of jew haters, that somehow I have been taken in by palestinian supporters. As an total aside: My friend and I were discussing it the other day and it truly was too bad Arafat was so hard to kill. In his career he had so many enemies that his survival speaks to extraordinary luck and uncanny skill. From Egyptians, Jordanians, Tunisians, Lebanese, Syrian, Saudi, Israeli, Russian, American, Turkish, Christians, Jews, Muslims, theocrats, fascists, commies, democrats. truly an astonding record of survival. And yet if he was killed a few decades ago, I think the entire region would be in much better shape. Consequently we awarded him the Wiley E. Coyote Lifetime Survival Award. I don't think anyone else in modern history comes even remotely close.
Jonsa; et al, I am lost again. (QUESTION) How does all this relate to the topic? Hamas - guilty or victim [2006 - 2008] What is the point being made in defense of HAMAS? Most Respectfully, R
Sorry, this is typical of exchanges between Bendor and myself. He attempts to use tangential comparative justifications for his neo-zionist perspectives, and I call him on it. We can lose focus of the OP rather quickly when both of us agree. In this case that Hamas is not a victim, but a willing participant in actions that create extensive misery for their people. Is the 90lb weakling that throws sand in the face of the 300lb body builder a victim when he gets pounded into the ground? anyway, mea culpa.
Now that Jonsa agrees that 'Hamas' is not a victim... watch the tentacles of this Hydra in action... PLEASE MEET OUR NEIGHBORS Watch it to the end & whom do they remind you of? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTsWSpGOWOg
> The San Remo mandate 25 April, 1920 > > > The video that they do not show us : > > The San Remo Mandate resolution gave the Jews all the land of Israel (Palestine - the name that the Romans called the land of Israel ) and the Arabs took Syria Lebanon Jordan and Iraq > - the film (not an Israeli) proves that the Jewish settlements, on their historical land, has always been legal !!! > > http://www.youtube.com/embed/BmMmJ46O-3Q?rel=0
And this one by Congresswoman Michelle Bachman that states exactly that the unilateral unexpected <White House> declaration is flawed to the core... I let you make up your mind after watching this VIDEO Michelle Bachman: Israel can be strong without the US https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bq4BZ4sHWq8
And the smartest Journalist in Israel said something on the same subject... Here it is for all to visit read and understand. June 10, 2014 “Rays of Light” More and more it seems, the nations of the world are arrayed against us: Israel is criticized for not accepting a Fatah-Hamas unity government, for building in Judea and Samaria, etc. etc. But there is one turn-around that, while modest, is significant. The government of Australian Prime Minister “Tony” Abbott (pictured) “has ruled out using the term ‘occupied’ when describing Israeli settlements in East Jerusalem, prompting suggestions about a shift in Australia's foreign policy.” Australian Prime Minister-elect, Tony Abbott claims victory in the 2013 Australian Election in Sydney, Australia, on Sept. 7, 2013. (Lisa Maree Williams-Pool/Getty Images) Credit: Getty “The government on Thursday delivered a statement to clarify its stand on the controversial question of the legality of settlements after the issued flared up at a [Australian] Senate hearing the night before. "’The description of East Jerusalem (sic) as “occupied” East Jerusalem is a term freighted with pejorative implications which is neither appropriate nor useful,’ [Attorney General George] Brandis told a Senate estimates hearing [speaking for Foreign Minister Julie Bishop]. "’It should not and will not be the practice of the Australian government to describe areas of negotiation in such judgmental language.’" http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jun/05/australia-drops-occupied-israeli-settlements ~~~~~~~~~~ This does not mean that Australian policy now considers Judea and Samaria irrefutably Israeli, but, rather, that it acknowledges that Israel may have a legitimate claim, which must be resolved in negotiations. And it’s a giant step in terms of fairness. The shift in attitude began with Julie Bishop, who on a visit here in January famously said: “I would like to see which international law has declared them [the settlements] illegal.” http://www.timesofisrael.com/australia-fm-dont-call-settlements-illegal-under-international-law/ In light of this apparent shift in policy, the Australian foreign ministry has taken hits from a host of countries that are “shocked” that anyone could fail to see eastern Jerusalem (there is no such place as “East Jerusalem” and Judea and Samaria as anything but “occupied.” This goes, by the way, for some members of Australia’s Senate as well. And the Palestinian Arabs, who are considerably threatened by such a position? Saeb Erekat, the PLO chief negotiator, wrote that “diplomatic recognition of the situation created by the attempted annexation of our capital is a flagrant violation of international law.” Sigh... they rarely make a statement without evoking a non-existent “international law.” ~~~~~~~~~~ What this shift does is provide a bit of hope. If only some other foreign ministries were to take note. Many, I recognize, are lost causes. But not all. It provides a signal lesson as well: Where there is even a modicum of open-mindedness and willingness to learn on the part of diplomats, attitudes can be changed as facts are presented. It is unlikely that it is a coincidence that in recent weeks there have been meetings between Israelis – presenting the case for Israel’s rights – and representatives of the Australian government. Most significant was a meeting between Minister of Housing Uri Ariel (Habayit Hayehudi) and Australia’s ambassador to Israel, Dave Sharma. This was held in – shock! – eastern Jerusalem, where Minister Ariel has his office. And there was also a meeting held in Tel Aviv between Australian Embassy political attaché Bill Rhee, and Ari Briggs, Director of International Affairs forh Regavim (and originally from Australia himself), Elie Pieprz from the Yesha Council foreign desk, and Jeff Daube, head of ZOA in Israel and my Legal Grounds co-chair. We – all of us! – have to continue to make the case for Israel. ~~~~~~~~~~ Another ray of light: Ruby (Reuven) Rivlin of Likud has just been elected by the Knesset to be the 10th president of Israel. reuven (Rubi) rivlin, knesset chairman (2003) He won in a run-off vote against Meir Sheetrit of Hatenua, 63-53, after neither candidate, in a crowded field of would-be presidents, secured a majority the first time around. I had scrupulously avoided reporting on the presidential campaign, as it was hardly one to do Israel proud. The accompanying scandals and accusations, and political jockeying were not the sort of issues I choose to write about in the limited space of my postings. From where I sit, Rivlin – who leans right and is opposed to a Palestinian state - is by far the best of the candidates. A lawyer and member of a family whose roots in Jerusalem go back for several generations, he has served twice as speaker of the Knesset. He wrote, before being elected, that: ’'”...the position [of president] is shaped primarily by the character of its incumbent and his cultural, historical, personal, and human identity. The president’s agenda is determined mainly by the goals he sets for himself. “...I believe that the president, as Israel’s representative to the world at large, must also give thought to Israel’s role on the international stage. Against the background of the criticism of Israel, it sometimes seems that we are neglecting our aspiration to be a ‘light to the nations’ in favor of the vital and unavoidable task of trying to explain ourselves and to fend off the efforts to eat away at the legitimacy of the State of Israel. Israel’s strength lies in its human capital. It can and must serve as a key player that contributes some of its cumulative experience and capacities to the rest of the world... ”The presidency is a sort of social compass whose nonpartisan character is its raison d’être. The ability of the president to be perceived as someone with whom all Israelis can identify depends on his ability to avoid being a party to debate...” http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/the-additional-soul-of-israeli-democracy/ ~~~~~~~~~~ I say amen to this last: may he honor it throughout his presidency. He began with the right tone, immediately after his election, by saying he was going to be a “man of the nation.” The disparate elements of our nation badly need a figure who can tie us together. We shall see... It is with no regret that I bid goodbye to outgoing president Shimon Peres who maddeningly overstepped the bounds of his office time and again by making highly politicized and inappropriate statements that reflected a position far to the left of that of the government. Although I will mention an enormous unease that exists in some quarters that Peres, out of office, will utilize his prestige to undermine the government and do even more damage. Should Rivlin step out of his “man of the nation” role and espouse a public political position as president, at least we know he won’t go in the direction that Peres went. And we won’t hear him refer to Abbas as a “man of peace.” ~~~~~~~~~~ Also semi-encouraging is the announcement last week by Housing Minister Uri Ariel (Habayit Hayehudi) that tenders have been published for building 1,500 new units in eastern Jerusalem, with 400 units in Ramat Shlomo, and in Judea and Samaria, with 700 units in the Gush Etzion towns of Efrat and Beitar Ilit, and smaller numbers of apartments in Ariel, Alfei Menashe, and Givat Ze’ev. Building is good. Why this is only semi-encouraging is because the announcement was said to be a response to the PA involvement in the unity government. What should be our right, and declared as such, is demeaned what it is presented as “retaliation.” http://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-okays-1500-west-bank-homes-in-response-to-palestinian-unity/ Needless to say, US Ambassador to Israel wasted no time in condemning this announcement of building. ~~~~~~~~~~ With the items above, I think we’ve covered the major “rays of light” at present. It would be foolish to expect too much at one time. I alluded above to tensions within disparate parts of our nation, and we are seeing this in particular right now with the disputes within the governing coalition as to what should come next, now that the “negotiations” have fallen apart. Some of the statements we’ve been exposed to are patently ridiculous. I refer in particular to what Finance Minister Yair Lapid (Yesh Atid) has now proposed: “Israel should halt settlement construction deep inside the West Bank and in any case withdraw from areas that it does not expect to keep under a peace agreement. He said such moves would clear the way for a final agreement and negotiated borders with the Palestinians.” http://www.timesofisrael.com/failure-of-peace-talks-leaves-israel-divided/ How far removed from reality can he be? A final agreement with Fatah, which is in a unity arrangement with Hamas? Does he not realize how quickly Hamas would move into areas we withdrew from? Netanyahu, for his part, responded that Lapid is demonstrating lack of experience – that proposing concessions without the promise of a return is foolish. He’s correct of course. Not that our prime minister, for his part, has seriously grappled with the current situation or avoided statements that are troubling. ~~~~~~~~~~ Economy Minister Naftali Bennett (Habayit Hayehudi) is probably only a bit more realistic than Lapid at this point in suggesting that annexation of Area C begin. I go on record here, as I have in the past, as totally supporting Israeli sovereignty over Judea and Samaria. But I recognize that – unfortunately - neither the nation nor the government is ready to stand behind this move. Not yet. Which is why I co-chair the Legal Grounds Campaign: to promote the concept of Israel’s legal rights, and to continue to promote it until there has been a shift in the paradigm of thinking. If any part of Bennett’s proposal possibly makes sense right now, it is the annexation of Gush Etzion, as a starting point. This bloc just south east of Jerusalem that is home to 20 Jewish communities has a long history of Jewish settlement and sacrifice that pre-dates the State. See: http://www.gush-etzion.org.il/history.asp To make the case for the Gush as intrinsically part of Israel is not difficult. ~~~~~~~~~~ The prediction here at the moment is for continuing tensions amongst various factions of the coalition. ~~~~~~~~~~ And what of the unity government? At the Cabinet meeting on Sunday, Netanyahu said: “Whoever hoped that the Palestinian unity between Fatah and Hamas would moderate Hamas is mistaken. Instead of the Palestinian Authority taking over Gaza, the signs are being more and more seen that the complete opposite is taking place, i.e., that Hamas is increasing its control in the Palestinian Authority areas in Judea and Samaria.” http://www.algemeiner.com/2014/06/0...easing-control-in-pa-areas-due-to-unity-deal/ This was entirely predictable. It is what I’ve observed over the years: in shared ventures, Hamas always gains the upper hand over Fatah and further radicalizes Fatah. ~~~~~~~~~~ The prime minister also noted that Hamas is reiterating its intention to destroy Israel. This is clearly the case, with Hamas retaining its “resistance” policy and its separate “resistance” forces in Gaza. He then called upon the international community to “apply pressure” on Abbas to break with Hamas. And here is where he also departed from reality. For the international community has already done their “hear no evil, see no evil” routine and agreed to support that unity government. At this point, his calls constitute no more than “blowing in the wind.” They will change nothing. Netanyahu condemned support for the unity government at the beginning. Would that he had simply said now that it is greatly regrettable that the international community will not apply pressure upon Abbas, that failing to do so is a moral as well as diplomatic error, and that the community cannot expect Israel to adopt similar policies in this matter. Period. ~~~~~~~~~~ © Arlene Kushner. This material is produced by Arlene Kushner, functioning as an independent journalist. Permission is granted for it to be reproduced only with proper attribution. If it is reproduced and emphasis is added, the fact that it has been added must be noted. See my website at www.arlenefromisrael.info Contact Arlene at akushner18@gmail.com This material is transmitted by Arlene only to persons who have requested it or agreed to receive it. 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Here is what a colleague wrote his name is Prof. Steven Plaut... This is the most enlightening piece on the latest kidnapping of 3 teen agers. The Wages of Appeasement and Cowardice The Israeli government has revealed that there were dozens of failed attempts by Palestinian terrorists to kidnap Jews in the past three years. After each of these, the Israeli government did absolutely nothing. It preferred to keep betting on luck, and ignore the law of large numbers in statistics. That law says that it is only a matter of time until one such attempt will succeed. And the government was completely unprepared for one such success. Had Israel assassinated 300 Hamas members after every previous unsuccessful kidnapping attempt, the kidnapping of the three children this past weekend would not have occurred. Had Israel grabbed the immediate family members of Hamas leaders and held them in internment, the kidnapping would not have occurred. Instead, Netanyahu and his predecessors preferred top reward the terrorists by releasing thousands of jailed murderers. Not only to buy back kidnapped hostages but also to buy back the bodies of murdered soldiers, to buy back a drug smuggler held in Lebanon, and basically to buy Kodak moments in which Israeli politicians could posture for the cameras with the heads of the "Palestinian Authority." It was all part of the grand Oslo game of pursuing peace by make-pretending that war does not exist. The terrorists had every motivation to kidnap more Jews. When soldier Nachshon Wachsmann was kidnapped and murdered by terrorists in 1994, in a village whose residents pelted with rocks soldiers attempting to free him, the village was not bulldozed. Its residents were not deported to Jordan. Rabin was too busy appeasing the terrorists in the name of peace. The "moderate" "peace partners" of the Fatah have published a cartoon mocking the three kidnapped children, representing them as mice. The "peace partners" throughout the areas under the control of the "Palestinians" are celebrating the kidnappings, passing out sweets and candies. Israel has not responded by passing out napalm. I have no doubt that many on the Israeli Radical Left, starting with "Peace Now," are also passing out sweets in celebration of this blow against "occupation." Leftist professor Moshe Zimmerman from the Hebrew University has long claimed that "settler" children are Nazis, and Prof. Zeev Sternhell from the Hebrew University has urged the terrorists to attack and murder "settlers." They have not been fired. For years Netanyahu cowered and capitulated, removing all the security checkpoints around the West Bank. The anti-Israel Left claimed they were "oppressive." After all, they inconvenienced "Palestinians." So when the children were kidnapped, there were no inconvenient security checkpoints to stop or apprehend the kidnappers. Netanyahu put the agenda of the anti-Israel Machsom Watch communists ahead of that of parents of Jewish children.
HBendor; et al, This is bad juju. (COMMENT) The three teenage Seminary Students that disappeared near a Jewish settlement in the West Bank, has lead to a huge security operation by Israeli soldiers. Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu accused HAMAS for the kidnapping ("Our children were kidnapped by a terror group," he said. "There is no doubt about that."). HAMAS, which has kidnapped Israelis in the past, is not beyond taking such action (past history of criminal and cowardly behaviors). Clearly they are a suspect, but I hope that the Police and Security Services also pursue all the other legitimate lines of inquiry. If true, it surely does not speak highly of either the Palestinian or the Islamic Resistance Movement. Most Respectfully, R
Gaza could have been a wealthy resort city, it has beautiful beaches and very rich history, they had Saudi money pouring that built hotels for the European tourists great swiming pools, they could have been rich and happy But nooo, they want to "liberate" one of the strongest countries in the ME, to displace millions of Israelis, companies that traded in world leading stock markets - for something they lost nearly 70 years ago....., that's not real it's a fantasy, and I would understand that if they kept to legal dispute - but to sacrefice their sons for it, their future ? to take that Saudi money and buy guns and build tunnels that at best will kill a few more Israelis ? what's the point??? where will that lead them ? Make no mistake, they chose to be martyrs, they chose to fight windmills and sacrefice everything for it, that's why they live in a 3rd world country - which under Israeli army protection in the borders they are now the safest Arab "country" in the area. Its insane, but that's the ME,
As Abba Eban once said, "The paletinians never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity". It is an obvious indication that the conflict for the palestinians has not been principlely about nationalist goals, but about religion, hatred, misguided justice and revenge.
The m.o. does not sound like Hamas at all. Yes it does sound like a splinter cell likeAl Asqa Brigades,Al Quds Brigades, or a splinter cell that is directed by or affiliated with the Fatah Hawks. I doubt it was Islamic Jihad or Hamas who do not have clearance from Fatah Hawks to operate on the West Bank in a military/terrorist capacity of any kind without Fatah Hawks approval Fatah Hawks and its splinter cells on the West Bank hate Hamas and Islamic Jihad almost as much as they hate Israel. Hamas doesn't operate on the w bank. . Its not its method. It wouldn't surprise me if Neyanyahu knows exactly who it is , i.e., Fatah Hawks and is insulting them by saying its Hamas to ridicule them and refuse to acknowledge them and instead acknowledge their arch enemy instead. Netanyahu is no dummy. Sounds like he was deliberately insulting the group who did it with some sarcasm since Abbas claims they are all one big Palestinian happy family now with Hamas. Also its quite possible this was done by an ad hoc group of angry Palestinians. There is a lot of anger on the ground between Palestinians and Israelis triggered by spitting and rock throwing and cars speeding past civilians causing them to have to jump out of the way or swearing at one another. Something dumb like that could have triggered this.
You saw the Hamas demonstrations a few weeks ago in the WB? they are there and they operate there now, dont forget they have the support of the street, that and their members there is enough to pull terror attacks. In terms of objectives, Hamas wins by escalation in the WB - which will happen AND by releasing prisoners - that most likly will also happen later on, it's only IDF actions now that have achance to take a toll from them now.
Sorry to differ... you are reporting some picked up verbiage... Israel has collected a little less than 500 of these Hamasnicks, Yesterday fifty were collared for the second time for they were used in a previous exchange. Things are difficult... but I am for this kind of remedy over an all out war. Not that Israel is not ready for one watching what is happening around us. I think one of the contributors here will have a field day... Jordan is on the verge of being called Palestine.
Escalating Syrian Violence Threatens Israel Title : Amateur footage Video from Syria-Israel border http://bit.ly/1vZmY9r
To HBend and Gilos I will be the first to concede I do not know and am just speculating. But I will share with you some more my opinion. Look I concede it could be Hamas or any other terror cell, period. Here though is why I want to wait for more info. First off I have noted the comments from Barak Ben-Zur, a former member of Israel's Shin Bet security service to reuters. He said Hamas had thousands of armed operatives in the West Bank a decade ago, but today have only a handful of militant cells on the West Bank. Now mind you he did also go on to say that while the small number of Hamas lowers the likelihood its them he did concede its not about the bumber of terrorists but how they carry out the attack. From what I have read and I concede that is just second hand, it would appear Hamas has its main West Bank sites in Ramallah, Hebron, Jenin, Qalqilia, Tulkarm and Nablus and I would imagine it would have its supporters in any Palestinian higher education institutions on the West Bank as Hamas likes to focus on students in schools. I did read where Reuven Erlich, head of the Meir Amit Intelligence and Terrorism Information Center stated: "One cannot talk about Hamas in the West Bank in military terms - size of forces, rockets and so on. If they have militant operatives, they are exposed only when caught," He went on to say that Hamas in the Gaza Strip, where the group's cross-border smuggling tunnels have been closed by a hostile leadership in neighbouring Egypt, is out to ignite a new uprising - "which is not happening" - in the West Bank. Now all the above can be found for example on Reuters and at: https://news.yahoo.com/kidnapping-m...lYwNzcgRwb3MDMgRjb2xvA2JmMQR2dGlkA0NBQzAwMV8x I do appreciate over the years Reuters has shown itself to be anti Israel in many reports. I also know stories are now speculating that Saleh al-Arouri, the Hamas operative based out of Instanbul and a former West Bank resident deported from the region after serving a prison term is now being linked to the kidnapping but again its from an "unamed source" which I take it means the Israeli government: http://www.timesofisrael.com/securi...abroad-likely-behind-abduction/#ixzz35CZU1tRu For all we know Fatah Hawks did it because they hate Hamas and knew it would ut Heat on Hamas and get Israel to do the dirty work for Fatah Hawks in removing Hamas from the West Bank..I mean how would we ever know? I do note US Sec of Sate Kerry made references to Hamas being behind the kidnapping and recent stories emerging on Haaretz to that effect. I also appreciate that leading up to this kidnapping, two Hamas senior representatives, Khaled Mashaal and Mahmoud Zahar, both made seperate statements suggeesting they will continue to engage in terorism against Israel after the formation of the unity government and in response to Abbas saying the unity government would not engage in armed struggle stated Hamas had no intention of dismantling its military wing, Izaddin al-Kassam, as part of the unity accord and would continue to engage in terror. I appreciate that. However I just do not think Hamas has enough people on the ground he could operate a kidnapping and required a proxy to carry out the kidnapping for them, i.e., a West Bank terror cell sympathetic to Hamas now, but not actually part of Hamas. Probably some small cell that was once aligned with Fatah Hawks but is growing restless with Fatah Hawks holding off on doing anything violent in deference to Abbas. So I see it more likely as an offshoot cell sensing Hamas being able once again to come to the West Bank seizing the opportunity to suck up to them for more power and doing this for them as an initiation test. That to me is a possible scenario. In any event I think Israel would be a fool not to use it as an opportunity to arguye the notion of throwing Hamas off the West Bank. Now if it is "Hamas" I think it would be more accurate to say one of its cells called "al-Qassam Brigades" who are still a factor in Ramallah. That unit is devoted to terrorism and often gets blessings from Hamas to carry out attacks so as to be able to distamce Hamas from the actual acts.Its techniclly an offshot of Hamas although the media now simply refers to it as part of Hamas. I don't think its accurate to say though its completely subordinate to Hamas. It has relative autonomy. The bottom line is whether its directly Hamas itself or someone sympathetic to Hamas, I suppose it makes no difference in the long run and do concede I am getting a bit caught up on being accurate as to what cell it is. I concede to Bendor and Gilos, the bottom line is it makes no difference in the sense it increases tension, is causing a house to house seaand could be a signal that Hamas is telling cells of otherwise dormant non Hamas Palestinian terrorists to wake up and ignore Abbas and reactivate a terror campaign and join in with Hamas in this campaign. It could be an early signal Hamas is trying to take over power on the West Bank from Abbas. I did not intend to get too caught up in who did it as much as to say, its possible it could be one of many terror cells. I think people forget that whether its Hamas or the Palestinian Authority, both political networks are umbrella organizations each containing numerous cells that have their own leaders. They sometimes work in unison and then at other times do not. Their coalitions are volatile, unstable and unpredictable. To define the PA or Hamas as unified cohesive groups is just not accurate. They are very loosely connected cells of people whose only thing in common is the desire to get rid of Israel. Other than that one unifying factor they hate each other as much as they do Israel. Without Israel they would internally collapse as is the case in Syria or Iraq.
