He Should Be In Politics Again.

You.

 

Why? The point of the parable was to show you that Jesus said being good does not rely on religion. He states elsewhere that you need not belong to a religion to enter Heaven but you may belong to a religion and be refused entrance.
If one does good just because they believe it right they are good. Yet I see far too many that claim to be religious, Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Singh, etc... who have no chance at Heaven on Earth or an afterlife there should it exist for the simple reason they do not respect the teachings of their religions. ALL religions have a version of the Golden Rule yet in my experiences the nonreligious are more inclined to act by it.

 

Which doesn't mean he didn't believe in no separation between church and state. Sorry but we aren't becoming a theocracy.

 

You know your interpretation of the parable is an atheist's interpretation of the parable.

 

Actually Jesus made no claim of being God and one can certainly respect and follow the teachings of Jesus without being in a religion of Jesus.

 

There seems to be no good reason to spar with atheists. Atheists don't offer any reasoning to this debate.

 

Oh my.

 

Quoting Jesus makes me an atheist. Who knew?

 

Well! There you go again. Nope, The Declaration of Independence was NOT authored, solely, by Jefferson.
"Jefferson submitted his "rough draught" of the Declaration on June 28. Congress eventually accepted the document, but not without debating the draft for two days and making extensive changes."
https://www.monticello.org/thomas-j...he-declaration/jefferson-and-the-declaration/

No, the Declaration wasn't "solely authored by Jefferson; see above.

In post #56 you said "there's a whole lot of references to God in The Constitution.": but now you say God isn't mentioned?

Well, like I said, God is mentioned once in The Constitution of The United States - Article VII:
"... in Convention by the Unanimous Consent of the States present the Seventeenth Day of September in the Year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and Eighty seven ..."

So, it appears you really don't know anything much at all about The Declaration of Independence, Jefferson or, The Constitution of The United States.

 

I have noticed that the evangelist R. had disappeared.

For my part, and using the term God as the one in both the old testament and the new, I would be very unhappy if any western country introduced stoning, saw women as merely childbearers whose purpose was to look after the whims of men and practised the principle if an eye for an eye.
Which of course is what fundamentalist Islamic countries do.
Maybe our OP would feel more comfortable there.

 

That's actually false. Every politician is free to worship any god they choose, or none. They can also advocate for things that they believe based on that religion. Ex: Banning abortion, banning eating cow, banning eating pig etc etc. What they cannot do is force someone to follow a religion or establish a religion as a national religion or favor one religion over another.

Too many seem to think that "Separation of Church and State" means that people can't even advocate for something based on a religious belief. That is a myth.

 

And people who believe in angels and an invisible man in the sky do? Heh heh heh

 

Too many people also, incorrectly, think religion should be removed from American gov't because of the separation of church and state.

 

Who's an atheist?

 

You mean correctly.

 

so Muslims and Christians are the same as they are both Theists and believe in the same God?

Theists are not all Christians

 

The constitution separates religion and government, such that government neither imposes or rejects religion, and allows each citizen to choose their own beliefs.
As religions have been responsible for or a major element in the bulk of history's wars, it's clear that people will not subscribe to a particular choice.
Even in the christian religions, many take the position that the bible says "there will be false religions" and uses that to invalidate all but themselves.
Like all things which wield influence over people, religion is constantly used as a source of power- and the justification for many of the worst abuses of humanity in history.

So it is right that each person decide for themselves about such things, and be neither indoctrinated nor forced to believe nor ruled by any particular religious belief or lack of a belief.
If you believe in freedom, that is fundamental.

As to believing in "God", there have been thousands of gods in history. I don't believe in any god; I believe in a higher power. Big difference. The concept of a god is what has given religions the power to control people. They literally uses a power that can't be proven or dis-proven, with the promise of an afterlife that can't be proven or dis-proven as your reward IF you support the dictates of that religion's leaders while you are alive. I always had a conflict with the idea that a loving and all powerful god would send you to burn in hell for eternity in an afterlife if you didn't love and obey him while you lived, or that any such god would tell it's followers to kill all that denied him.

A higher power controls the way things work- but does not grant favors. It just sets out the rules that regulate life, and we are free to follow them for our benefit, or ignore them to our peril.
You can't plead for mercy from that power, nor gain favor with promises of allegiance. It's just there, like gravity. Because gravity exists and is stable and constant, certain things are predictable and can serve our purpose- like water flows downhill, and thus we can use that to generate electric power, build irrigation canals and use the currents of rivers and oceans to travel.... and that if you jump off a high cliff, you can do so with absolute confidence that you will fall to the bottom. I don't worship that power, but I highly respect it's source- which to me is known as Mother Nature. Find harmony with it's rules of life, and you have harmony with life. They are the same today as they have always been. Answers to many things that most people will never understand- but no deceptions, no inconsistency, no favors. My choice, and the best choice I ever made.

An old song says "You've got to believe in something or you will fall for anything". I think that's true, we need a stable foundation, a base belief or understanding to be able to navigate life.
Each person has to decide what that if for themselves. I can only say that if your choice isn't consistent, always stable- your life and your power to control your life won't be either.

 

The Constitution doesn't acknowledge Christianity or any other organized religion.

 

I don’t care what he was, you made a specific fraudulent statement that was easily disproven.

Unlike you I have no need to project and are still dodging

 

Which statement of mine was fradulent?

 

The Constitution does acknowledge religion, however.

 

You stated:
“Jefferson wanted religion in gov't just not one main and overbearing state religion in gov't.”

His direct quotes say otherwise and you have been unable to provide and direct quotes that affirm what you are stating in this thread.

 

But "God" or "Allah" or "Yehweh" has many different connotations. And Religion at that time was much more precarious than religion today with each denomination as a separate "religion" in their mindset. But the references in the Constitution have more to do with Enlightenment Philosophy. That philosophy was to change that God was through the King to give you His Grace to the idea that God, through his Grace, gives his blessings to each individual person.

In that time, the Head of the Church happened to be the King of the Country or to the Pope in Rome, for Catholicism. That was a big deal in those days. And it is not that they wanted religion in government, far from it. What they wanted was that government cannot control religion like Government did in England, or France, or The Netherlands, or Holland, or Sweeden, for instance. And that is the key, not God in and of itself.

 

Yes, the no establishment clause and the free exercise clause, both are embedded in the Enlightenment philosophy.

 

I've never agreed with you, or read through one of your wordy overlong posts through but, I have to go along with most of what you've said here. Religion has been the bane of humanity and our ability to think freely since it's inception. It always preaches freedom and self determination, then does everything to empower itself to control it's "believers" ever thought and action. Almost every time mankind has march off to war it's been to maintain or expand a religions empowerment over us. Separation of Church and State was one of the many gifts our Founders bestowed upon generations of Americans. I have no doubt that the current crop of American religious fanatics would make the Taliban look like inept school children, given the slightest chance, when it comes to dominating our existence.

I disagree that the power that controls our Universe is hands off. Too many times I know my life has been ... blessed (no other word for it) ... by an unseen guiding force that has made all the difference. I agree "IT" isn't sitting around for the phone to ring taking the every request of "the faithful". Like the wind or gravity; it's just there. To pick you up and dust you off, to help you center, to make the unbearable ... bearable. It's there for everyone, but most people don't notice it or take advantage of it's force in our life. But that has nothing to do with religion, it's antithetical to it. As I like to say Christ save me from Christians and by extension Mohamed save me from Muslims, Buddha from Buddhists ... .