He Should Be In Politics Again.

And I have quoted the relevant portion of the constitution as well as what the word establishment means in the context as written.

If you are not arguing that the constitution does not allow the intermingling of religion and policy and are not pushing some twisted religious agenda what are you trying to do exactly besides argue poorly?

 

What does it matter that people want the US to be a Christian nation? The first amendment forbids any state religion.

 

So you want a country that is a theocracy in all but name.

 

The US can be a theocracy (something that an atheist such as yourself abhors) but the US can't have a state religion of Christianity, for example, because the first amendment strictly forbids state religions.

 

See, what you're missing is the first amendment, er, Jefferson, et.al, didn't want one state religion to dictate all religious matters to the people the gov't governs. This is different than strictly forbidding religion in gov't as atheists like yourself dream for.

 

the US can not become a theocracy

 

"What does it matter that people want the US to be a Muslim nation? The first amendment forbids any state religion."

we don't want the government pushing ANY religion on the people, the people can decide for themselves, a religion really has to suck if its members feel it needs to be forced on people, let people decide for themselves

 

Yes, it can. What the first amendment prohibits is a state religion.

 

the first amendment prohibits a theocracy

 

That's what an atheist would say. Too bad atheists are undemocratic.

 

Misinformation. The first amendment prohibits a state religion.

 

Christian infighting is why we have separation of church and State to begin with

 

You really hate Christianity, don't you? What, were you previously a Catholic?

 

I dislike religious fanatics... don't you?

Many good Christians out there, sadly some bad ones too

Do you hate our religious freedom in this country?

What do you have against Catholics, some kinda infighting going on there between Christians?

 

separation of church and state

 

Suggestion: Because you obviously consider yourself to be a superior lexicographer, please do us a favor... please write your opinion of what a revised, 'easier-to-understand' version of the First Amendment would be. Then maybe it would be easier for a dullard like myself to focus on what you mean.

Again, for ready-reference, here's the original that you can dissect and rework as you see fit:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

 

Jefferson did not want religion to dictate any governmental matters. What he was concerned was honoring the enlightenment philosophies that was incorporated into the US Constitution. He knew, through histroy, that if religion does get involved with politics, another 30 years war would commence on US soil for that very reason.

I am not saying that Jefferson was agnostic or atheist, but he knew that religion was a personal matter only. And when you get a group of people in government talking about religion, only bad things will happen and nothing good will come of it. That was evident in his infamous letter to the Danbury Anabaptists who were concerned about religion in politics.

 

Thank you, Alwayssa! I didn't know anything about 'the Danbury Anabaptists' until I read your post, but Jefferson's letter to them sums up a constitutional view of the matter of government never being able to establish a state religion better than anything else I've read, especially this sentence:

"Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should “make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,” thus building a wall of separation between Church & State. adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties."

Link: https://encyclopediavirginia.org/en...e-danbury-baptist-association-january-1-1802/

 

100,000 moons ago, I had to memorize this letter for high school and explain the letter when I took US Government in College at BU. It should be required reading when taking any government class whether in high school or college. And it explains perfectly the basis of what our Freedom of Religion clauses are about.

 

I don’t have to rewrite it — it’s pretty easy to comprehend “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion”

Congress [the legislative branch of the US government] shall make no law respecting [honoring] an establishment [the exercising of power and influence] of religion.

That simply states that there shall be no intermingling of religion and state. While those that are religious are to be free of interference from the congress so shall our laws be free from religious interference.

 

The usage of "respecting" in English in the late 1700's meant something else. Yes, people did have 'repect' (esteem) for this and that, and each other -- but the primary meaning, especially in an expository, legal document like the Constitution, was 'in relation to', 'relating to', or 'with relation to'.

We are at an end point, cd8ed. English is, as Gollum would say, a "tricksy" language in some ways. That's why I really prefer German when I'm trying to nail something down, without any 'wiggle' room. But, obviously, Jefferson wasn't about to write the Constitution in German!

May I assume you aren't going to offer a 're-write' of the First Amendment for our enlightenment? I'm honestly not surprised. Have a lovely day, and be assured -- nobody is ever going to make you get down on your knees in the United States and worship anybody's concept of 'god'. Feel better...?

 

other than forcing children to say the pledge every morning, which they added "under God" too - that is a law respecting God believing religions over Religions that do not believe in a God

 

Good job, OP, in attempting to share with us your Ministers sermon! Problem is, half the world don't believe in your god anyways. So, why try to force it back down our throats again?

 

Sorry, no atheist here.

 

Meaning no state religion.