Here's your chance..

I sense your frustration. I feel like I am beating my head against the wall as well.
I have concluded that some really don't want to learn what this legislation is about. Maybe it's by design.

Kudos to you for trying to reach those who continue to bury their heads in the sand.

 

Interesting. I haven’t kept up with CA gun laws and litigation. You are right they will do everything in their power to deny their citizens certain rights. That’s why people who value freedom are leaving the state in droves.

 

Right to bear and self-defense should come with a permit that allows the guidelines to bearing arms to be met, no? After all, if there are no guidelines, it does allow anyone and everyone (even if they are mentally sick or full of hate) to bear arms. You have no desire to stop those people from bearing arms????

 

Actually, we just want less of the obscenely high rate of gun violence in the US. Whereas according to studies done on gun violence, you folks seem happy to see your unfettered gun ownership policy result in more gun violence.

The Hill’s 12:30 Report — Another mass shooting: This time it’s Louisville
https://thehill.com/newsletters/123...other-mass-shooting-this-time-its-louisville/

 

If you want it to stop, hold those who are responsible and not the law abiding's guns. Tougher Gun legislation hasn't stopped the crazies out there from killing.

 

Fer cryin; out loud, read what he actually wrote instead of doing word twists.

 

I am going to make the effort to address your post in a serious manner though I firmly believe that all you are doing is feeding your own desires and not thinking about the overall idea (and its consequence and benefits) of what DeSantis has done.

First of all, I was a cop when young. I was trained in the use of firearms and carrying a gun every day for 4 years. I have shot at people and been shot at. In addition, as a youth I was somewhat rash and did put myself in a couple of situations where someone with a gun threatened me. I am well aware of guns and what they do and what kinds of things they can cause.

Generally and likely the majority of gun owners are nowhere near as trained as I was. In fact, I would venture to say that a good portion of gun owners can be classified as neophytes when it comes to guns. Fear is what drives most people to purchase guns for self-defense and fear is not a good emotion to have as it is an emotion that can cause people to do irrational things. In addition, it does give people the untrue belief that they have power, which is always dangerous.

I have not carried or have a gun presently (for over 50 years) and have not needed one for this entire time.

I believe guns are generally dangerous for "anyone" to have for the reasons mentioned above (fear and a belief that you have power. Those emotions are not ever good to have.

Having said that, I understand that we all have the right to own and carry a gun as it is stated in the Constitution. I also believe that generally speaking, there needs to be some management, control, guidelines, restrictions) to carrying a gun and by whom.

This board is a perfect example of what I am saying. No one here believes that anyone else (especially those that think differently than you do) is intelligent, understanding, sane, or able to control and make sense of their ideas but...............then these are the same people that say that people carrying a gun are going to act intelligent, understanding, sane and that will be able to control and make sense of their ideas. This is a total oxymoron as it is likely that if you were to meet in person with these same people you are on opposite sides here on this board, you would be the first to want some controls to be in place (such as what guns they could bring to the meeting and who would be able to bring a gun to the meeting to begin with).

I fully believe that as much gun control as can be had, without causing unnecessary and difficult problems, should be instituted everywhere. Guns are dangerous as they can kill easily. Knives, clubs, fists, and other instruments that can be used in a fight are nowhere as effective as a gun. A gun can kill from far away. Everything else needs physical contact to accomplish.

Permits are the LEAST of the requirements/guidelines/rules that should be had. Will it solve the potential problems? No, but it will reduce them. It is at least a step in the right direction to limit the damage that guns can cause.

If we get rid of the requirements/guidelines/rules/restrictions, all we are doing is allowing gun ownership to grow and be more of need for self-defense. When that happens, we become an anarchistic nation were power is that makes the rules.

There is absolutely nothing you can say to me that will make me believe that the ownership of guns does not need to be controlled. If everyone had a gun, be assured that a large portion of the population would use it and use it badly. As it is, we seem to be the nation that has the highest number of mental illness of the world. You want mentally ill people to have it easier for them to use their mental illness to accomplish their ill mental goals.

This is what happens when we allow that.



and by the way, that 288 number has grown to 371 since this chart was put up. That is mental illness to an extreme. Most (if not all) of these mass killings were done with a gun.

Where and when does this end? especially if getting guns and carrying them gets easier every day.

 

Just like I can walk up to you on the street and start talking to you, and even asking you questions, so can a LEO. Just as you can ignore me and continue about your day (though, I actually am pretty likeable to most folk, even hardcore leftys, with a few notable exceptions, one of which is very sad), you can do the same to a cop.

Now, let's analyze what I bolded. Someone comes up to a cop and says he saw a white gun in a black Tampa Bay Buccaneers hat wearing grey sweats and a black t-shirt with a gun sticking out of his pants (which describes me to a T right now, but for the fact I'm in bed and my sidearm is on the table next to me, like so many things in law... It depends.

If I just bent over to pick up some raviolis off the bottom shelf and my shirt rode up and accidentally, and unbeknownst to me briefly exposed my sidearm, as long as when I stood back up it got covered again, I have committed no crime, and as such, a cop cannot compel me to identify myself. However, if the shirt got caught in the handle, and I'm walking around OPEN carrying (even, again, unbeknownst to me) that is probable cause of the crime of open carrying a firearm which is sadly still illegal, except in narrow, specific circumstances.

At that point he can detain me, and even arrest me, because I don't have to be aware I'm open carrying for it to be illegal. I would hope that most cops, upon running my bonafides and finding out I'm as clean as a whistle, would just remind me to cover up, but that's up to them. Open carry will hopefully be the next domino to fall, but it remains illegal.

The important part here is that the scenario I just outlined does not change once the requirement to have a physical permit goes away. A standard ID check will not report if I have a CCW or not, that is a separate database they have to go out of their way to check. Carrying without the physical card is currently an administrative infraction with a $25 fine. Concealed carry without a permit AT ALL (not just not on you) is currently a felony, even if you qualify for a permit... THAT is what has changed. As long as you meet those requirements, now you are legal, physical card or not. It's pretty much just as easy to check my record, see it's clean, and move on as it is to run my carry permit for the same purpose.

If you are NOT qualified, then it's still a felony, and you're still going to the slammer in bracelets. Most of our DAs around these parts are still pretty good about prosecuting actual crimes, but at that point, it's up to them whether or not to pursue charges. But if they refuse to pursue a felony carrying a concealed weapon by a felon, they should not just get voted out, they should be immediately fired.

 

You were a cop? I thought you were a serious writer, or a lifelong investment broker, and when you were young, you were a gambler. Hmm.

Wow, Jack of all trades. Impressive.

 

helleners would they ever be able to do that regarding a permit? Permits do not collect serial numbers or model numbers or anything like that. You're thinking of a gun registry which is illegal

a permit to carry a firearm wouldn't have anything whatsoever to do with that again they don't collect serial numbers or model numbers or anything and you can also have a firearm without a serial number

no nobody knew that you can't get a serial number from someone's carry permit.

You're thinking about a registry which is illegal.

 

This message thing is gone wrong s can't be violent they don't have minds of their own.

 

This has more to do with what we call a school shooting in the US. Someone goes in the parking lot of the school at 2:00 a.m. but no one's there and commit suicide we call that a school shooting.

This is manipulative language to make things seem more dangerous than they are. It's essentially what the news media have been doing for the past 40 years I'm surprised you haven't caught wise to it yet

 

You keep bringing up Desantis, and it seems quite clear to me you have a hardon for the guy. You haven't explained why, and I expect you won't, but this whole time you've been playing the simple guy who doesn't know all that much, when it turns out you're playing dumb with nothing but a political axe to grind against the current governor, who I would point out has done such a horrible job, the whole damn country is trying to move here. My home is up over 300% since we bought it in 2016, and good thing to, because I can take that money and buy a brand new spec home, designed with my disability in mind, which this house certainly is not. It will likely be a manufactured home, but they are not your daddy's doublewide. With the exception of how they are attached (permanently, I might add) to the earth, you can't tell a difference these days. Thanks, at least in part, to the guy who you hate.

He's not a King (even though Biden keeps trying to act like one), and all he does is sign legislation passed through the Legislature. While this bill, or something damn close to it, has been introduced in every session for as many years as I've been paying attention (which is longer than I even know who Ron Desantis even was), it has failed every time.

Until now.

Wow. I have a lot of cop friends, and of all of them, I only know one who fired his weapon throughout their entire careers, and he was shooting glass out of the bottom floor of WTC1 on 9/11 to give people more ways to get out. If you got in that many shootouts in 4 short years, not to mention whatever trouble you got in as a kid, sounds like you had no business being on the job in the first place.

Most civilian gun owners spend more time training than most cops do. You are quite literally the first cop I have ever interacted with who is not an enthusiastic proponent of civilians being armed, because they know that by the time they answer the 911 call, it's usually too late, and they just have to clean up the bodies, and try to figure out who did the deed. Oh, I know your type, I've heard a few stories over the years, and most of them didn't last long, either.

I'm not old enough to have been a cop for 4 years, and spent the last 50 completely unarmed, but I have been around the block a few times. I have also never needed my sidearm, hell, sometimes I forget it's there, but if that day ever happens that I'm in a gunfight I didn't start or want, it will at the very least even the odds.

Know what else I've never needed, hope I don't, but have anyway? A fire extinguisher in the kitchen!

Shall not be infringed. Live it, learn it, love it.

Florida's permits have done nothing but raise revenue. I explained to you myself the utter stupidity of the required classes, which I though might make you see that, but you're not here to see anything. Just play stupid, while asking trick questions, trying to trap people with 'Gotcha' type answers, while taking every advantage to bash Desantis nearly every time you open your mouth.

I figured that out some time ago, but I give you props for finally admitting it. Yes, it needs to be controlled. If you are an ex-con, or have been found to be legally incompetent, you cannot own a gun. Otherwise, you can. And, after Bruen, now you can legally carry it. In some places with a pretty little piece of expensive paper, others just on the basis of qualifying for that expensive piece of paper. Beyond that, shall not be infringed.

Nobody less than the 6-3 majority of the USSC disagrees with virtually every word you have to say.

You can always pack your bags, and go live in some 3rd world country somewhere. $10,000 and you'll live like a king, until the government takes everything you own and throws you in jail on some trumped up bullshit charge, or even worse, some local gang of thugs does it for them. And leaves you in a hole in the ground.

 

Before, when we had CCL, not cooperating with an officer who spied a gun on your person, would give probable cause, since it was a felony to carry a concealed gun without being legally authorized. Now, a gangbanger with a gun can tell an officer to F off, because there is no probable cause until he takes out the gun and start using it.

 

Well under CCL there was probable cause to ask an armed person if they have a CCL. If I understand from the other posters, now under the new law, being armed would not be probable cause for the cop to spot a gun and ask about it.

 

OK at this point, I'm no longer getting any new information, just the same information repackaged over and over. It seems that this law is giving armed criminals an edge since there is no longer probable cause to stop an armed person. But that seems to be the intent of the law.

 

Living in Los Angeles, I have seen the disadvantage to citizens for requiring a permit. If permission is needed, those in charge can say "no".

Los Angeles turned into a "may issue" county and almost no CCWs were issued to ordinary citizens. Only cops, judges, friends/family of the sheriff and, of course, criminals carried guns here.

Requiring permission provides loony killers with soft targets.

 

Depends on the state. https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/duty-to-inform-states

OTOH, anyone would have to be a nitwit not to alert police that you are in possession of a gun. For your benefit and the cops too. There are already enough unnecessary shootings.

 

Those posters haven’t read the law. Or they are being disingenuous. The new law requires anyone carrying to have ID on their person and they must provide that ID if probable cause applies. No difference than before. Now the person carrying is checked with their DL or state ID instead of with the CC permit and their DL. The result is the same. The individual can still be checked for legality of their carry status. It’s no harder for a cop, and no easier. Literally nothing changes in regard to who’s allowed to carry. Nothing changes about how unauthorized persons carrying are identified, prosecuted or punished.

 

"...if probable cause applies."

That IS a difference than before, since there was probable cause in not having a CCL since concealed carry without one was a felony. Now, what would probable cause be?

 

Same as before. Is the person suspected of having committed a crime or are they suspected of being actively engaging in a criminal act. Carry by prohibited persons is STILL a felony.

 

It's still a felony, but unlike before, there is no probable cause to actually question the individual.

 

I'm an anarchist when it comes to firearms.

Just who is government to say that I can't have a gun when government has guns of all kinds, missiles, tanks, and nuclear weapons?

And, speaking of nuclear weapons, what ever happened to "Equal Rights"? If we all got equal rights, you don't gain more rights just because more people agree with you. So, if I can't have a nuclear weapon, and you can't have a nuclear weapon, then why do we claim anyone has the right to own them?

Of course, you cannot un-invent weapons. Might as we let everyone arm themselves as they choose, with the presumption of innocence, until a person proves themselves to be a danger.

Besides, I'm an American. Us Americans are supposed to be deciding what weapons government is limited to, not the other way around.

 

I can see clearly that your mind is set and that nothing anyone can say that is against what you believe can cause you to consider your stance. As I stated before and becomes more evident with every post of yours, You are in it for your own benefit and don't give a damn about others. This is all about you, and no one else.

 

The constitution applies to all does it not? If that’s the case they are afforded the same right as any American citizen