How far can we divert debates?

It is a legitimate question.

Am I allowed to rant, rave, and foam at the mouth every time another poster is present?
Is it tolerable if my foaming at the mouth does not actually concern the topic of the thread but the poster?
Can I insult them again and again, while still foaming at the mouth, then cry when they criticize my beliefs?
Are we allowed to make the entire discussion about the poster and completely ignore the topic of the thread and throw out all sense of debate?

I ask because this seems to happen often in the religion forum, and nothing seems to happen.

How far can we divert debates?

 

THis is a poster who is losing several debates and is foaming at the mouth as a result.

THis entire post is nothing more than a poor attempt at debate by mod.

Having asked this poster to spell out and provide evidence for topic's thesis, I have been called evil, insane, a pathological liar, a stupid Christian, dark and full of hate you name it - one personal pot shot after another ...

For daring to say:

1. Homosexuality threatens the tribal basis on Nigerian culture. He disagrees by calling me evil.

2. Hell is a problem for everyone, unrepentant sin gets us ALL there, it does not single out atheists for any special reason. He disagrees by calling me full of hate.

3. POinting out the failure to make a deilnation between a small sect doing something doctrinally unsound and projecting it as normal for the whole of Christianity - you know like we ALL belong to the Westboro Baptist Church. He disagrees and calls me a pathological liar.

Now all these are clearly on topic rebuttals, the continuous insults and derision are not.

Rather than rebut the points made, he first lashes out, and with his inability to rebut, blows his stack and wants to moderation team to essentially bully people on a debate forum into silence for him.

Abuse is not part of debate.

And if you blow your stack, you are responsible. If you waste the mods time with pointless threads like these? WHo is responsible.

If yo ucannot handle debate, as i have long said, then you should probably not be debating.

But making spurious emotional accusations is well, well out of line.

 

Some examples of 'on-topic' posts from this poster:

Not aimed at the poster at all! Clearly on topic!

AGain, if our partner here cannot handle debate and criticism of yoru beliefs, and as every atheist has told me on this forum, then you have no business on a debate forum.

 

Wow is all I can say.

 

Well, you have made a spurious accusation, quite clearly aimed a specific poster in a specific section of the forum.

And you have done so publically.

Not content to hurl insults and invective in the forum, not content to report the incidents to the mods for adjudication, nor content to let the mods decide, you have decided to publically impune someone based on a blown temper?

You go right ahead and back up your claim Wolv. You demonstrate that you have been a doe eyed innocent who is being picked on.

This section of the forum is supposed to engender discussion on ways of making the forum better or address systemic problems.

It is not the play ground of personal vendettas and whiney accusations from someone who is soundly beaten in debates.

There is no subject that requires this kind of whiney emotionalism, ths kind of accusation andinnuendo to defend, and those who do so are simply wrong.

This is nothing more than you asking the moderation team to silence a critic based on a whiney, hypocritical standard. And basically, that is all you got.

That is why you lose debates and are left with a temper tantrum.

 

You should know the answer to this Wolverine.

How many threads have you had closed b/c of flame bait or trolling?

How many comments have you had deleted b/c of flame bait or trolling?

You should know the TOS by now, considering the track record.

 

That might be relevant if I flame baited or trolled.

I simply speak the truth without ignoring the inconvenient and socially unacceptable bits of religion.

Some my find the removal of kid gloves offensive, however it is far from flame baiting or trolling.

 

Sorry but your shut down threads and deleted comments say otherwise.

 

Some examples would be nice.

The only posts I can remember being deleted are those that are off topic in an effort to get someone to stop derailing a thread. My thread here is a good example.
http://www.politicalforum.com/gay-lesbian-rights/216914-ff-marriage-religious-institution.html

 

But of course, the hurled insults and accusations that are quoted are, of course, not representative of the real you. Gotcha.

Mods, a question? Is there any point, any actual subject of debate here? Anything at all that is realative to the general conduct of the forum?

 

Here is one thread I sent a complaint on and shortly thereafter was shut down

http://www.politicalforum.com/religion/211582-why-do-people-laugh-creationists.html

As for comments just go through threads and find'em. They are there.

The thread above has plenty.

 

Fact of the matter is, the Religion Section has way to many trolls and flame baiters in it. I don't understand the need of people who have no belief in God, going into a discussion about God and doing nothing but instigating crap.

It's all trolling and flame bait.

The Religion Section is there to discuss matters of religion and faith. So why is it filled with atheists who have no interest in believing in God or a religion at all? Are people just looking for a fight? I don't see how it can be considered anything but flame bait and trolling.

 

So, being critical of those who are so extreme as to refuse the existence of the water cycle is insulting towards the people of PF? I suppose if I made a post critical of flat earthers or those who deny our moon landing you would report those as well?

Did you not read "My example is truly extreme, and not necessarily an example of what happens here on PF." in the OP?

Do you have any other examples? Maybe examples of actual flamebait? I am assuming not.

 

A very wise man once said something along these lines:

"People ask me why we [atheists] care about religion if we don't care about god. 'Why not oppose Thor in the same sense that your oppose Christianity?'. I looked at him and said 'We don't believe in god. It is non-sense to us. However no one is using Thor as an excuse to deny other rights, teach in magic in our science classes, or use the government to enforce their religious beliefs. That is why we care."

Seems to sum up my beliefs quite well.

 

There are plenty, but all I needed was 1. The thread I gave has been shut down to the flame bait/trolling it is. The deleted comments inside of it also.

 

If I started a thread critical of flat earthers or those who deny the moon landing would you report those as well?

Or just threads that are critical of those who deny the water cycle and evaporation?

I am just curious.

 

Nobody is trying to take your rights away chief. Especially not in the Religion Section on PF....lol. What I just read is an excuse to babble about others beliefs.

So find another excuse to troll and flame in religion section.

 

You don't get it do you? Not in the slightest. Did you bother asking why your thread(s) were shut down?

If it was as simple as "just being about the water cycle", it wouldn't require being shut down.

 

There was no need to ask, the reason was posted by the moderator as incorrect as that may be.

If I started a thread critical of flat earthers or those who deny the moon landing would you report those as well?

Or just threads that are critical of those who deny the water cycle and evaporation?

Was it not quite clear that the post was not in reference to the posters of PF but to the most extreme cases of scientific denial and ignorance?

Am I not allowed to cite those who are so extreme they deny the water cycle?

Is there something respectable about such denial?

If it is there religiously held belief that the water cycle does not exist, then is it untouchable?

I am just curious.

Of course no one is trying to take my rights away. I'm not homosexual. If I was, then yes, they would be doing so.

Do you see how it works?

 

I, for one, am tired of the progressives calling the conservatives racists for discussing the consequences of multiculturalism which is a political policy.
The Mods don't seem to give a fig.


_

 

Hmmmmm....... I am guilty of this, but mostly due to the issue of the few conservative posters wishing to segregate society.

 

Nor should they be concerned about your personal proclivities on a any subject, should they?

They are there to moderate, not take sides. When they do, they stop being moderators.

What is the question here is whether a young and temperamental man can blast someone else's faith for often grieveously ignorant positions, and then get pissy, insulting, abusive, when someone rebuts his statements and finally, after blowing his stack, whine in this section of the forum as a result? Demand the mods remove dissenting voices?

What is the point of seeking debate then?

I what someone really seeks is automatic acceptance, then I would recommend: www.agreewitheverythingisay.com

 

I am closing this thread, since it is nothing but a continuation of an obvious personal arguement.

In answer to the questions raised, note the following forum rules:

Note particularly this section from the above rule on personal attacks:

Attacking ideas or beliefs that another forum member holds IS NOT a personal attack, and is allowed, AS LONG AS THE POST IS 'ON TOPIC', AND DOES NOT VIOLATE ANY OF THE RULES ABOVE (or any of the other forum rules, of course).

Baiting and insulting/attacking other forum members is against the forum rules.
Deliberately disrupting or derailing threads with posts that do not directly address the topic of the thread is against the forum rules.

Note also the Mission Statement of the forum:

If you find you cannot debate with someone 'respectfully', then it would be wise to not engage with them in debate at all, since you would be quite likely to get yourself into trouble.

If someone is violating the forum rules, you should use the report button to inform the moderators. You should NOT respond in kind and continue the violations - you are likely to also recieve moderator attention for your own violations.
You also have an 'ignore' feature which you can use to ignore another member if you have a problem debating with them.

This forum is a place for 'respectful debate' of issues, not a place for debate of forum members themselves, and not a place to carry on nasty personal arguments from thread to thread. ANYONE who engages in that kind of behaviour is likely to find themselves taking the consequences of their actions. The carrying on of repated nasty personal exchanges will not be tolerated, and ALL of those involved in carrying on such exchanges are likely to recieve the attention of the moderators, no matter who 'started it'.

I hope that makes the situation clear.

Cenydd
Site Moderator