I finally got a vaccination--big mistake.

Boosters are needed if a variant emerges that either lacks the spike protein completely, has a spike protein that significantly differs from the one generated by the vaccines such that it is unrecognized by your immune system, or otherwise has something that prevents recognition of the spike protein. Fortunately, the mRNA technology allows the rapid creation of boosters because we can generate mRNA strands very quickly. Part of what took traditional vaccines so long to be created was simply growing enough virus for use, since they can't just replicate in media like bacteria do.

Anyway, so called "natural immunity" does not, in any way, guarantee that multiple aspects of the virus were identified by your immune system. It still may have been triggered by only one part, and not necessarily the spike protein. This is because your immune system most commonly encounters viruses after they have already infected a cell and its parts have been broken up and presented on the cell membrane to indicate that infection. If the first antibodies to attach to the presented parts just match up with part of the capsid, then that's what your immune system triggers off of. If it doesn't further trigger off of another part, then you're only immune to variants with that part of the capsid. With a targeted vaccine, we can identify the least variable part of the virus and guarantee that that's what most folks' immune systems trigger off of. That's why they still recommend people who have survived covid to get the vaccines: to guarantee immunity to part of the spike protein.

 

What took the other treatments so long is full testing that this experimental treatment has not gone through. No animal trials and only phase 1 and 2 of the 4 human clinical trials. Phase three takes 1 to 2 years. You are the guinea pig for phase 3 human trials.

 

And those who have refused the vaccine are the guinea pigs forming the control group in the phase 3 trials and are suffering badly right now from the Indian variant in the UK. This control group are now queuing up to join the vaccinated group after seeing their group becoming more and more highly visible in hospitals in towns like Bolton

 

Okay, so what? The vaccines were shown to be so effective that they immediately gave them to the placebo groups once that effectiveness was discovered. There has been no evidence of negative effects for these vaccines that is unique to them. Just the normal vaccine responses, with the rare adverse reactions that most frequently come from the supporting ingredients of the vaccines (which, again, are not unique to these vaccines).

 

You can still contract the virus and transmit it after being given the experimental treatment.

 

like death, blood clots and now heart problems in the young it’s being given to plus no one knows the long term effect since this has not gone through normal testing.

 

I'm familiar with the claims of death and blood clots, but I haven't seen anything with "heart problems." The review process worked for the two dozen or so cases of blood clots that were encountered regarding the J&J vaccine. The general death claims haven't been validated, since there's no indication they're actually related to the vaccines.

As to the long-term effects, there's no clear reason to expect any. Since the mRNA disappears within a day after a shot, any long-term effects should be the same as any other subunit vaccine: immunity.

 

How many have died from the vaccine in the young? Around 2500 have died from the virus in the under 30 age group

 

Which is why it is important that those around you are also vaccinated especially those in the vulnerable group

 

How would you know? No long term testing has been done except on you and you are only phase three of human trials.

 

The way Pharma and FDA are cheating on the certifications protocol reminds me of the way Boeing cheated on the certification protocol for the MAX series of aircraft. We have so much evidence of fascist practices in this country.

 

Pharma and politicians history on these things have a checkered past.

 

In 2009 Pfizer pleaded to criminal charges, the largest criminal fine ever at the time.

And mainstream media treats them like upstanding citizens, but that's because MSM takes mucho dinero from Pharma.

 

These experimental treatments never used on humans before only target one of the virus proteins whereas natural immunity from catching the virus targets much more leading to less capability to succumb to a variant. The current experimental treatment will allow the virus, and in fact may spur the virus to mutate to which there would be not natural immunity.

 

Sorry, the vast swath of immunology research indicates that you're simply wrong. I've posted numerous links in several threads that directly contradict the nonsense you're trying to pass of as if it's expert opinion. Keep repeating the same garbage, only the extremely credulous are buying it.

 

LOL, do you even know what research consists of? Apparently not. You think trying out experimental treatments that have not gone through complete testing protocol and never been used on humans before means all research has been done. Fascinating.

 

I honestly can't tell if you're deliberately misrepresenting what I said, or if you weren't able to comprehend it. mRNA therapies have over 20 years of research involving human subjects behind them, though they weren't used as vaccines. And the research in primates goes back another 10 years, at least. But I was actually talking about immunology research in general, which is more than a century old. Without plausible reasons or mechanisms on which to base the kind of scaremongering histrionics that folks like yourself dump in these threads, it just comes off as incredibly sad and misguided. Like you're stirring up **** just to work up those too tired, lazy, or ignorant to know any better.

 

I know, you still know more than virologists that are warning against this massive experiment.

 

Again, I can't tell if you're deliberately or mistakenly misrepresenting me. I've never claimed to know more than any virologist, only that I don't gullibly buy into the claims of one or two who happen to agree with my position. The consensus is that the balance of public health against potential long-term effects, for which there is no known basis for concern, warrants widespread authorization of the vaccines. You side with a few quacks and misguided experts, while I side with the field as a whole.

 

Translation: Only listen to those that fit the current dogma that the politicians and pharma are pushing.

 

Since when does trying to maximize your profit get labeled "fascist"?

 

Some good information here, but some that doesn’t align with empirical evidence.

A variant could not exist that has no spike protein. The S1 and S2 subunits of the spike protein are necessary for SARS-CoV-2 to identify the ACE2 receptor of target host cells and necessary for fusion without which there can be no infection. If a mutation occurred resulting in no spike protein it would be a “lethal mutation” because the resultant viron could not infect a host cell to replicate. Lethal mutagenesis is actually a method of treating viral infections we are toying with. It’s the attempt to get the infecting virus to mutate to the point it’s less infectious or completely loses its ability to infect/replicate.

Point mutations that only slightly alter the spike protein subunits is definitely the big concern—point mutations are causing the variants we see.

It is more difficult to culture viruses because they require living cells for replication. mRNA technology is absolutely a huge advancement in immunology!

The empirical evidence shows natural infection does produce the full array of antibodies—including all subunits of the spike protein. When an infected cell presents antigen to initiate immune response it’s either presenting based on the intact infecting virus or viral peptides (protein subunits) that host cell ribosomes have made based on the infecting virus’s RNA. Breakup of viruses won’t occur until immune response is initiated.

Even though natural infection does produce a full array of S protein antibodies, the mRNA vaccines produce a higher tiger of some of the more crucial ones—namely the receptor binding domain neutralizing cohort. There is also cross reactivity of antibodies observed in vaccinated individuals not seen after natural infection. This may help reduce chances of variants developing in infected vaccinated individuals.

It is not known if there is great value to having antibodies to the nucleocapsid (N) protein that are induced by natural infection but not the current mRNA vaccines. It may be the T cell component relating to the N protein antigen may be valuable.

It was assumed based on previous research that IgA antibodies that are present in mucosa and are crucial to preventing colonization of the upper respiratory tract would not be induced by the mRNA vaccines. Typically only natural infections and nasally administered vaccines produce IgA antibodies. However, there is data in pre-print studies showing neutralizing IgA antibodies in mRNA vaccinated individuals. This would explain their observed ability to not only prevent disease, but to prevent infection as well. Before this data was produced it was theorized natural immunity had the leg up in this respect and that nasal administration of COVID vaccines would be pursued going forward. Now it looks like the mRNA vaccines are going to shine in this area as well.

It looks like people who have had Covid and then get vaccinated will be better protected than people who did not have Covid and are fully vaccinated. The vaccine will increase the titers of antibodies targeting the receptor binding domain and S1 subunit.

So we have a three tiered set of “immune” individuals. Recovered naturally infected individuals have protection, but less than fully vaccinated non infected individuals. Recovered individuals with a booster vaccination have better protection than fully vaccinated uninfected individuals.

But this is just based on information we have now—mostly antibody data. Going forward, cellular immunity may be as important as antibodies for keeping Covid in check and we have a lot to learn in this area.

 

It may be the best thing ever or it may be a failed experiment with a massive amount of the public as the experiment. The mRNA treatments only target one protein on the virus. Natural immunity targets more than one protein. The virus could mutate to a more natural Covid or a more deadly one. My bet is a more natural one as there are signatures of manipulation but with such a high % of survivability in the majority of the population and already existing antibodies in a portion some wish not to be part of a never attempted in modern medicine mass experiment.

 

We have a lot of evidence this is one of the greatest advances in immunology in our lifetimes. We have no evidence this will be a failed experiment.

Yes. The spike protein that contains the mechanisms allowing SARS-CoV-2 to infect host cells. The protein most susceptible to neutralizing antibodies.

Yes. But natural immunity does not produce titers of neutralizing antibodies targeting the mechanisms of infection as high as mRNA vaccines do. We believe SARS-CoV-2 may have the ability to mask the RBD epitope in natural infections. This doesn’t happen with the vaccine.

In viral/host interactions natural selection acts on genetic variations in both the host and the pathogen. SARS-CoV-2 variants will change based on their mutation driven developed abilities to infect without killing too many hosts and the human population will change because of the selective pressures from SARS-CoV-2 infections.

 

I do not believe that maximizing one's profit is fascist, and I have never said such a thing. YOU said that, not I.

Fascism is not maximizing profit. Fascism, as Mussolini noted in the last century, might also be described as corporatism, a state in which government and industry work hand-in-glove, in which corporations write the rules and government adopts them as law. Under fascism, corporations like big pharma control the government to such a point that unelected bureaucrats controlled by corporate interests rule the country, ordering such things as lock downs and social distancing.

Get it?