I wonder if the atrocities directed against unarmed Israeli civilians

will play any role in the gun control debate in the USA. CBS had a special news report last night (10 PM EDST) that showed how unarmed civilians-often hiding in shelters, were butchered or taken hostage. Yet one kibbutz, lead by a 25 or so year old young woman directing armed citizens, took out 25 terrorists and saved their community.

 

Is there a link?

 

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news...y-myself/0000018b-1e4f-d47b-a7fb-bfdf2e560000

https://nypost.com/2023/10/10/israe...-terrorists-leading-security-team-at-kibbutz/

She placed her squad of kibbutzniks in strategic positions across the settlement and set up ambushes that caught the gunmen off guard and turned the tables on them during their mission to inflict mass casualties.

Lieberman killed five terrorists by herself, while the others gunned down 20 more over four hours as they turned Nir Am into an impenetrable fortress — while nearby kibbutzim suffered heavy losses, Walla News reported.

 

With all that has happened, I appreciate a positive story.

 

Yeah, If I were a 25 year old Jewish single man, the lady would be a real keeper!!!

 

Or both, the civilians butchered and then their dead bodies dragged away and taken hostage.
If demands or ransom are not met, the families will not get back the bodies of their loved ones to bury (which is important in Jewish culture) and the bodies will be desecrated in humiliating and cruel ways. (for reference, only about 10-13% of Israelis choose cremation after death)

 

My understanding is that a true kibbutz is usually well structured and organized to begin with. I am not sure there are any real equivalents in America. We like our rugged individualism.

 

in many parts of America, neighbors have watch groups and some train together for dealing with criminal attacks, but yes, the Kibbutz had a security force that the young lady alerted and they were able to get arms in their hands before the terrorists attacked. I know where I live if people started showing up overhead in motorized hang gliders firing weapons, most of the neighbors would be out blasting away.

 

No way. The anti-gunners will ignore, or deny all of this because they know it destroys their argument.

 

Some Americans aren't the same as you are. Some recognize that having a strong, organized social group is helpful, notably in defense.

 

Well outside of gangs and militia groups, you aren't going to find a lot of that.

 

And those people when elected will make such organizations and practice illegal.

 

That's the rugged individualst in you talking.

 

Which is a shame.

 

Sounds like a well-regulated militia- you know the part of the Second Amendment that most here don't seem to care about.

 

a kibbutz is communal. Pretty sure the well-regulated militia goes back to their own houses at the end of the day

 

what part of well regulated militia modifies "the right of the people"?

hint-IT DOES NOT

 

Oh, we'd love it. It's the Democrats who wouldn't.

 

from what I understand, most of the residents of these entities did not have firearms readily available. They had a communal arsenal and in the one case I discussed in other posts, a young woman realized, quickly, that an attack was coming, opened the arsenal and armed those in the Kibbutz and they were able to kill 25 terrorists and save their community. Most of those slain in other kibbutzes were not armed. Maybe that will cause things to change.

 

IDK. I read at least one story where the people had a safe room and the one who was in it lived while other members of the family died. Not sure how common those are in the region. I have also read that hamas was pretty effective in taking out the military outposts in the areas where the death tolls were the highest which slowed the IDF response. Netanyahu is very right wing. He will inevitably overplay his hand. I really don't think any good of any kind is going to come from all this, but that apparently is what both sides want so I see no reason for us to become involved on the ground in any way.

 

I also saw reports of safe rooms filled with dead family members. I didn't see much of anything about armed civilians being killed.

 

Does the U.S. government have any legislative authority to ban guns?

 

Not sure how well-trained Israelis having access to communally owned guns and working together to defeat terrorists in a national emergency says anything about US gun policies. I don't think most US gun control advocates oppose the police or military having access to guns.

 

So why hasn't your side done anything about it? I mean they're pretty vocal about some things but silent on this.

 

since gun control advocates are invariably big government fans, many of them think only the government should have access to firearms. But what the Israeli massacre teaches us is that having guns locked up in a communal armory on a kibbutz is fairly worthless if the Jihadists attack before you can get to the arsenal. In my neighborhood, most of us have at least a couple AR style rifles and one guy has a couple legal machine guns. Others have 12G shotguns or scoped deer rifles, all of which would have been rather effective in dealing with hang gliding Jihadists