If "Our Creator" endowed us with rights...

What has nothing to do with creator or endowed?

 

Although you won't find limits in the language, onlly finite powers granted.

 

Murderers and theives are essentially oppressing their victims. Its not oppression to outlaw oppression. Not as far as I'm concerned.

 

Awesome question!

If there is no God but there are rights, then where do the rights come from.... awesome!

Because with these non God given rights, on the premise that these rights are not God given, surely there might be some kind of 'protection monies' needed since they are the ones providing for the rights, right?

In other words, they provide, you pay.

 

Good point but clarify who is "they" and"you"

 

This question brings to light the principles which our nation was founded on...judeo-Christian principles..which adheres to a Creator which designed human beings with free will.

As Christian-judeo values within our society disintegrates and a nation turns from God, then the concept of free speech..for instance... becomes an enemy and not a right. You can see in many threads on this forum that some people see freedom of thought and speech as harmful and must be controlled by another "god", government.

So in essence, yes we are endowed with the freedom to think and speak freely...but it's up to the free will of the citizens to either uphold that standard, or to decide not to.

Our country was built on the foundation of Judeo-Christian values, and even non Christians can enjoy its freedoms while the values still stand, but we will be a much different, more totaltarian country as we turn away from God and our Christian values and worship the god of government instead.

 

The limited powers granted to government are predicated on the contractual agreement that all rights are inalienable and limited only by the specific, limited powers granted to government.

Whether God exists or not in irrelevant to this contractual agreement

 

I'm glad you don't take it literally. We were having a discussion about people who do. Endow is a verb. Verbs are action words. Something or someone performs that action.

 

It means the opposite of born with. It means an external source is responsible for it. You don't need to be endowed with something that you are born with.

 

Like the gift of music?
Who gifted you?

 

Have you never met a conservative Christian before? Hats off to you. But back here in realty, lots of people claim that rights require their God. It's been a common theme in this forum. Why pretend not to know this?

Also, remedial grammar lesson here, but in "The gift of music," gift is a noun, not a verb

 

It doesn't matter if the rights came out of our asses. Government powers are granted to it by the citizens, and all citizen rights are present barring those which the state has been granted specific, limited power to curtail.
It grants us nothing

 

Gifts are gifts because they are gifted to the recipient by the giver.
You sure schooled me,....not.

 

No. Those are not really moral tenets.

I was thinking more, the good of the many outweigh the good of the few.

Also, do not kill when you can cure.

Those seems to work in all situations.

Regards
DL

 

I agree. I was just refuting your view that laws oppressed minority groups unjustly.

Regards
DL

 

Spock would certainly agree with you. Lets say that by sacrificing my life I can save 1000 people, they can only be saved by my sacrifice, and only I will know of this. Should I do it?

 

I disagree on almost all of this.

First. Let me show you that the West is not based on Judeo Christian principles. Those are fascist.

Both Christianity and Islam, slave holding ideologies, have basically developed into intolerant, homophobic and misogynous religions. Both religions have grown themselves by the sword instead of good deeds and continue with their immoral ways in spite of secular law showing them the moral ways.

Jesus said we would know his people by their works and deeds. That means Jesus would not recognize Christians and Muslims as his people, and neither do I. Jesus would call Christianity and Islam abominations.

Gnostic Christians did in the past, and I am proudly continuing that tradition and honest irrefutable evaluation based on morality.

https://topdocumentaryfilms.com/theft-values/



Humanity centered religions, good? Yes. Esoteric ecumenist Gnostic Christianity being the best of these.

Supernaturally based religions, evil? Yes. Islam and Christianity being the worst of these.

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Second. You indicated that your god gives us freedom of choice while your bible say the opposite. You might check your bible before making false statements.

Are non-believers doomed by Divine Design?

Scriptures say that God decides if a person will be a believer or non-believer. Those scriptures are shown in this link.



Those quotes seems to really screw up the free will notion that Christians say God gives us.

The free will that God offers is kind of a joke anyway given the number of people whose free will to live is ignored in the billions of adults, children and babies that God is shown to torture and murder in scriptures.

If the bible and Yahweh are to be believed, and as a non-believer, I, of course, cannot believe it, thanks to God, by God’s design and will against me, then why did God deny me belief or faith?

Even more important to believers, might be to answer the question of; did God make you a believer in things that you can only hope exists and can never confirm?

Are you happy with God ignoring or negating your free will to think as you please?

I have assumed that God’s work of creating both believers and non-believers is working. If that is so, and you believers must think it so, just as I as a non-believer cannot think it is working, --- and Jesus said that those with faith could do all he did and more, --- then there is not even one believer or person of faith that has ever existed.

Either the bible and Christianity is all a lie, or there must be some who can do what Jesus did.

What is your choice of those two options?

Is the bible and Christianity a lie, or is God just not creating any people with faith, --- which would make all Christians who say they have faith, --- liars.

I mean no insult here but someone is definitely lying, if we read what is written and look at reality and listen to Christians.

What do you think is the truth?

Is it just for God to create people doomed to hell even if they wanted to believe?

Regards
DL

 

No, it wasn't.

It was founded on the Magna Carta. In fact many wanted Washington to be king with no thought of an elected president.

Many of the Founders were agnostic.

 

There are those who would like to twist history to present our founders as agnostics but that is wishful thinking. Of course no one is cookie cutter and automatically Christian however they were all brought up surrounded by the Christian faith and its values.

If these founders were brought up Muslim, or atheist...their values may not align with freedom of speech and free will that was put in place.

The values from a country's majority belief system will lay the foundation for that country's government structure and laws.

 

Please. You are believing the lies claimed by people who call themselves "conservatives."

The word "god" does not appear in the constitution.
The word "religion" appear only in the 1st where it is forbidden to establish any religion
The words "judeo" and "christian" do not appear.

In the Federalist Papers "Not a single one of the 85 essays takes up the protection of religious liberty as a distinct subject worthy of a sustained focus."

Are you getting the idea? Shall I continue to beat you over the head with this?

 

I didn't mean to infer all laws. I meant such laws could potentially be made in a pure 'mob rule' democracy where the only limit was popularity.

 

You are ignoring commonsense and logic. What makes countries different? Why are laws and values so different country to country, or as in the case of the United States, from state to state? The differences come from integrated values which are derived from a world view shaped from a belief system.

From our beginning and through our growth as a nation the majority of the people who lived here and built our nation were of judeo-Christian values. To say these values had nothing to do with our system of government, our laws, or our elections is short sided and wrong. Those values laid the foundation.

To say a a muslim, a Christian, a hinduist and an Atheist share the same values, priorities and world view...is not logical.

Christians believe we were endowed with inalienable rights by our creator that are worth fighting for. An atheist might view these same rights as "social constructs" and not ...special or worth fighting for. Would our constitution be worthless under a citizenry of majority Atheists? Probably so.

 

If God does not exist, then Rights don't exist since Liberty, as our forefathers understood it, is a biblical concept. The COURTS ruled in many decisions that you have Rights that are inherent, unalienable, absolute, natural, irrevocable, and above the law. Since the Declaration of Independence mentions a nature's god, Divine Providence, AND one of the complaints were the taking away of Charters - it's pretty obvious why those Rights became synonymous with unalienable.

WHEN this nation accepted the foundational principles as the founders / framers intended, we prospered. AFTER we allowed the legislative branch to change our form of government with the illegally ratified 14th Amendment, nullifying the Bill of Rights and replacing unalienable (God given) Rights with man created inalienable rights, the country began a downward spiral. Today, we have to ask that question as government attacks your Rights 24 / 7.

 

The Constitution limits the power of government.

 

Well you started out with a false premise. Inherent Rights are unalienable (bestowed upon you by birth) and inalienable rights are given by government as per federal court holdings.