If Ron Paul did have a chance, it died during the last debate.

Really? All of those "Bush lied, people died" red-faced screaming liberals during W's Presidency loved the war, after all? Michael Moore's anti-Capitalism movie was made because he loved the bankers?

Maybe you've been awake too long?

Oh, I didn't know that was such an exclusive term that it would have only come from the media.

Your rhetoric needs a bit of work. There are plenty of liberals here who could probably give you a free lesson. You might even find a few that aren't willing to completely throw the US under the bus in the way you Ron Paul supporters do.

 

And those agencies are Muslim, right? Probably a coincidence.

 

No argument, here.

But do we have to leave those wars under the narrative that we caused the aggression of Islamic extremists, even though Islamic extremists have been doing these things for over a thousand years? Why don't we just blame ourselves for Hitler, while we are at it? What else should we blame ourselves for?

No wonder the West stopped having kids. It doesn't believe in anything anymore, and its carrying around guilt for no reason.

 

Guilt smilt...I don't care who feels guilty about what.
I just think the war could better fought if we consider the cost.

Have you ever read The Art Of War??

A nation fighting a war over long distances spends 4/5 of the heartlands wealth.

 

doubtful
.

 

only when the Dems are in power, just like you pretend conservatives love big government and spending when you get in power.

Both are the same, only the tools don't realize it.

that's 'cause your'e easy.

 

This whole thread has turned into a "why they hate us" thread. Ron Paul was merely saying that they don't hate us because we are free and our aggressiveness hasn't helped. The OP agrees that they don't hate us because we are free, correct?

Now I still think 9/11 was in fact caused by our aggression. It's not the sole reason, as the OP has stated, but I do think that is what put us on their top priority list. If the only factor in determining why 9/11 happened was because they are muslim and we are not, then 9/11 could have still happened when and how it did, but I doubt it. I really think our interventionism over there had some relevance in the matter. I really think that is what put us closer to the top of their list. Had we not interfered over there as much, I don't think 9/11 would have happened how and when it did. I also believe that this is all Ron Paul was trying to say. He only had 30 secs to do so, and this isn't something that can be explained fully in 30 secs.

 

Ron Paul won the California straw poll Saturday night with 45% of the ballots cast.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/09/17/congressman-ron-paul-wins-2011-california-straw-poll/

Next debate this Thursday night on Fox.

September 22nd, 2011 9pm ET on Fox News – Submit Questions
Location: Orlando, FL
Sponsor: Fox News, Google and Florida Republican Party
Participants: TBD

 

So can we add conspiracy theorist and/or truther to your repertoire? Or are you just going to play this cute little game of dancing around what you really want to say?

 

Hey ZM I thought I was your one and only... you didnt say there were others... I feel so cheap... LOL

 

Yeah, don't worry, there are plenty of other Patriotic Americans who, for some reason, use jihadist logic to explain their positions.

 

Well, it wasn't. It was caused by our economic and military prowess, as well as our avowed commitment to democracy and human rights. The US is seen as the greatest obstacle to Jihadist hegemony, which is why they are seeking to destroy us through whatever means possible, be they military, economic, social, political, cultural, propaganda, demographic, etc.

Our intervention in foreign countries was only relevant insofar as it reinforced the idea that the US is the greatest threat to Jihadist goals of conquest and religious hegemony. They attack us and Israel the most because we are the greatest threat to their agenda.

 

Zionist monkey? You mean people who stick up for the only liberal democracy in the middle east?

 

You took my statement out of it's context. Read my post again. I agree with you in that we are indeed an obstacle to the Jihadist hegemony, but by being as aggressive as we were we caused them to prioritize us as their greatest threat. Do you really think that our aggressiveness had no relevance in their minds as to determine who is the biggest threat? If it did have relevance in their minds, then it would also have to had relevance as to when and how 9/11 happened.

That is exactly what I was saying. Our interventionism did indeed reinforce the idea that the US is a threat to their goals. If you believe that to be true then you cannot deny that it would also have to been a factor as to when and how 9/11 happened. I know I'm repeating myself a bit, so sue me.

 

So, according to your view about Islamic Holy Lands...should we build bases on churches then (for the record, I'm an atheist of Jewish descent if you need to know, but I still believe we should respect religious properties)? Who cares what your view about their religion is, building bases in countries 5,000+ miles away on religious lands will only earn us new enemies, do you know anything about diplomacy? Or are you one of those people who really believes America is king and we can do whatever we want without any consequences. Regardless of the fact that I believe Islam taken literally is just as barbaric as Christianity pre-American Revolution, it's still reasonable to respect the customs of different cultures, especially when we are GIVING AID to them, IMPORTING RESOURCES and TRADING with them. The fact is, our foreign policy model being that we are the equivalent of the town drunk is the very definition of insanity and is actually weakening our military might.

Also, you seem to refer to all Muslims as terrorist threats...since you seem to have the paranoid neo-con view that they can't be trusted and are all ticking time bombs, what do you suggest we do about it? As this entire strong backlash is about cultural differences, I'm going to assume it's something pretty unsavory.

I don't believe there are such things as Holy Lands, but still, I'm not gonna infringe on the rights of other countries to own and maintain their Holy Lands in their own boundaries, if anything, by respecting their individual rights to their property, it's helping promote some semblance of religious freedom in the ME.

 

All PEOPLE are terrorist threats! NO ONE can be trusted, they are ALL ticking time bombs!

 

I love it when little self proclaimed conservatives are found worshiping at the alter of Obama style militarism, thinking they have the line on patriotism, flexing their little proverbial muscles in the mirror, throwing the word "liberal" around as if they knew what it meant. It's so cute.

 

My personal end game to this solution.

WAR should have consequences.

If you support terrorist or engage in war and you lose..we take what we want and screw you.
End of discussion.

This idea of Nation rebuilding after every conflict cost us more money than any terror attack.
Countries wouldn't be so quick to be a home base to a religion used for terror if they knew a cruise missile could hit their palaces..SEE LIBYA.
This is a one constant fact about war that Paul dismisses.. Deterrence works.
Throughout history counties respect each other out of fear.NOT PEACE.

Until libertarians can prove their case I will not support any of their old ..tired people they put into their fore front.
On individual points they make great sense..Stossle on American education and teacher unions..
The judge on over regulation of businesses.

But Romney gives us all that plus a strong defense..and a balanced budget.

What history does Paul have in the economy OR foreign policy ?

Puff Puff But another great straw poll win in Calkif. ( misspelled on purpose.. )

 

MnBillyboy, do you offer anything other than suggesting Romney is the better choice while not even listing his plans on the matters themselves? Ron Paul has a clear message/set of goals in mind when it comes to nearly every topic and I've yet to see list anything substantial from the Romney campaign that proves he knows what he is doing without the aid of his lawyers or some Lobbyist.

Obviously you've missed everything he has voted for and advocates.

Cananda fears the US? I thought it's because we're neighbors and have no reason to fight one another... After decades of peace with one another there is Respect and to claim it's out of fear is laughable.

You wouldn't support them even if God came from the Heavens because your head is so far up your ass you couldn't hear a word.

 

Just like Bush was going to privatize Social Security.

 

Brilliant post. Keep in mind, though, that Ron Paul does not share your views on this issue.

 

You're really a Ron Paul fan?

 

This is true. It's easier to be better at talking points when you lie constantly

 

If we did build on Christian churches, they wouldn't be waging a holy war against us, I would wager.

We aren't building on "Muslim holy sites". That's just the propaganda that jihadists use, and that certain people in the West take at face value. Muslims are calling all land in the Middle East "holy" in order to stir up even more religious resentment amongst Muslims.

There's nothing "paranoid" about it. We have an enemy whose numbers run into the millions, and they are driven by an ideology that is completely at odds with our values and system of law. And, it's an ideology that gives them permission to lie to us in order to advance their agenda, so yes, they cannot be trusted. We should deport the ones who pose a major threat to us and are not citizens, and we should close our borders to more Islamic immigration. The leading political group in the Netherlands is trying to accomplish this, and they have a much bigger Islamic problem than the US does.

No such thing as religious freedom in the Middle East. It's Islam, or it's oppression and violence, and that is becoming more true every day.

 

*inb4 squidward asks you where you learned the term "talking points"*