Imagine How Smart I Would Be If I Was an Atheist

I know you have probably answered this a ton of times on here... but can I ask what made you change?

 

If you're so smart, as you claim, why are your threads among the most ignorant tripe on this forum?

 

Because he isn't an atheist.

Isn't that clear???

 

A couple of things.

#1 - Science. When you trace back the Big Bang into its parts, and you something like that just pop into existence? Well, I know a thing of two about explosives - and explosions that are purposeful almost always indicate some kind of design. There is just no other explanation for everything popping into existence then through a Creator.

#2 - Reality itself. The reason I was atheist had a lot more to do with personal issues and perceptions that it did any logical trace and root discussion. It's why I believe that so many atheists struggle when asked to really prove their case for their being no God - you can't - but you are certain anyway?

And when you really trace the roots of that certainty back to their roots, it isn't logic or reason, its emotional. Its fear in many cases, fear that you might not be in control, or being judged on your own merits, etc. When one is honest about what drives them to atheism - you wind up confronting yourself. And when you look in the mirror, does the sum of what you are really equate to what comes out of you.

I was rude, and arrogant, and atheism was little more than crutch and excuse to avoid what really ailed me. In short, my atheism was just window dressing. There was no actual substance to it.

#3 - Christainity is correct. All of those things that make us good people, valuable people, respected people, are found in the Bible. I have been dumped into the worst places in the world, and the wisdom that flows through the Bible is simply amazing when it is put into practice. It is correct.

#4 - Although I will not go into great detail in public, lets just say, as I have said before, that there is proof of God. Indeed, God asks us to ask of him all things, and as an atheist coming around, without really knowing it - I asked for it and got it - proof that he was real. I know.

Its a challenge that I have occassionally given to atheists, go to God and ask him for proof. Open your heart and mind and really ask him, and you will get an answer. It will be at the time and place of his chosing - but you will get an answer.

And there is curious thing that happens when you go in search of God, when you start pondering the reality of him in a genuine manner - you see yourself quite closely. You see what it means when you find something valuable, and then turn an watch somoene laugh and deride - for no other reason then because they are not open, and have no desire to really explore, to share, to be joyful, to be happy for you.

The more I opened myself up to God, the more I saw myself in the atheists around me - and that was not the person I wanted to be. Atheism stood in the way of that, and enabled some very ... wrong behavior. My importance was not found in proving myself to others - but in serving others. And that realization made a lot of atheistic aspects very difficult to deal with.

 

Great post Neutral!

I am also a Christian. It's always good to hear stories like that. Glad to hear that you sound much happier now.

 

There are many who misunderstand this..... I was involved heavily in quantum mechanics..... We have created every equation and system of measure to observe the universe around us..... Even our greatest minds offer a goofy little symbol to quantify infinity; likewise the furthest they will go is to bring the universe to a finite beginning in describing a primeval atom.... a very small dense hot mass containing all matter! And?

This is as far as they will go in thought..... Do we dare consider that the universe will once again return to such a state to start over from the beginning?
In a matter of time too extreme to even conceptualize, it is like a beat? Like the heart of the universe.
The big bang theory has never declared the universe was created out of nothingness..... The reality is that it also declares that the universe is not static but in fact expanding and will continue to do so forever??????
This aspect brings about some troublesome thought, similar to the ones I already posted above..... Where did this mass come from?

Before you get all defensive that I am declaring an absolute.... Not me!
I will however not have someone use a ridiculous circular argument in an attempt to show proof of anything beyond their own foolish notion of an absolute.... Sorry!

Does anyone consider it to be rather brilliant that we actually can't prove anything but ourselves?
Just me?

 

Apparently, running around with diatribal accusations is a far more intelligent thing to do?

Do you see why I could no longer be atheist J? To behave like that is not scientfic or rational in the slightest. To be that rude, out of the blue, for no reason?

What drives that atheism? What wound does that atheism cover I wonder?

The least we can do when being confronted with rudeness like that, is strip away the pretense that it is rational or scientific in the slightest. Its not.

It is however, far to often - atheism.

 

On the internet, the intellectual quality of your posts determines how smart you are perceived to be.

Claiming to be intelligent offers nothing. You may well be a genius, but I don't have any reason to believe it.

 

Well, I am glad you watch PBS. I am glad that arrogance drives you to believe that we are unaware as to whether the universe will simply fade away or - given gravity - result in a Big Crunch. They teach this in elementary school where I grew up.

What is most amazing is that, with a back ground in quantum mechanics no less, we know the state of the Big Bang - a pin head sized super assive ball of pure eneregy - that would look quite a bit different if all the mass of universe suddenly collapsed into a super massive black hole - wouldn't it?

All matter, as we know it, came from the Big Bang - from a state of energy.

We know this - your proof is thus flawed. Pretty simple.

So, is it just me, or, JUST LIKE BLACKIE SAID, have you derived an atypical certainty where the evidence does not support such certainty? Indeed, contradicts it?

 

Yep, and like anything else - no matter what proof is presented - you never will either.

It isn't proof that drives your conclusion is it?

And yet, just like he claimed - the assumption is that YOU are smarter than him? Why is that the natural assumption, I wonder?

 

If he makes internet posts like a genius, I will believe he is a genius at making internet posts. I have literally nothing else to go on.

 

Hey angry little man, have I declared anything here or simply pointed out the gross flaws within both arguments?

Since when does using an absurdity in an attempt to prove a declaration, become anything beyond the absurdity used to do so?

Again formal fallacy!!!!

 

And how would you know? Can you define a 'genius' level post?

Or, more likely I believe, even if someone makes several genius level posts, will they simply be rationalized away?

Its an amazing thing, and one none of us are free from - bias that is - but very often we see posts that support our positions as 'intelligent' and those that go against our positions to be 'dumb'.

But, as I have said, most the posts in this thread that have come from the atheist side are, with an honest attempt at objectivity, not intelligent in the slightest - they are ... testy and emotional - to be polite. Not very many of them use the standard construct of reasoned arguements in the slightest - nor does there appear to be much demand for atheists to step up their game into that recognized standard. (Nor much complaints about that structure not being there - which seems to indicate that some atheists are not even aware that it is missing).

So, I know you to be intelligent - but you are also human.

Would you really recognize a genius if he wrote here but was not on your side?

 

Again..... mass has always existed.... God has always existed..... Same declaration, different attributes!

 

Yes, you did declare a position about mass that was wrong.

You have not done anything other than give me grade school science that ws not relevant to either your own thesis or my thesis about the arise of mass from a state of pure energy - not to mention virtual particles etc.

Once again, a healthy dose of emotion, accusation -- little flimsy on the facts and reasoning.

 

First, you don't have the first clue what I find within myself as a conclusion.

Second, if you did, you would know that there is absolutely no bias in my observation of brilliance wherever it might exist.

Proof? No, sorry.... that's your arrogance speaking, not mine!

 

Well, that is called an appeal to authority (namely yourself). Its an actual fallacy.

We already know your opinion - try proving it. Your first attempt? Well, it was factually wrong - and remains so.

All matter in this universe arose from the Big Bang - which was a state of pure eneregy. Its not falalcious to believe otherwise - its just not factually correct.

Again, do you understand why Blackie is taking issue with atheists deriving unwarranted certitude about things? And then being malicious about it to boot?

BTW - we have no idea what the origins of God are. Just as we have NO IDEA what was there before the Big Bang. Why one side is only valid when it can pierce that informational void and the other is not? We call that a double standard.

Get 'em a lot with atheists - where the real goal is obfuscation not explanation.

 

You are right I cannot read your mind. Nor do I believe I ever claimed I could.

You are simply factually wrong in what you very clearly stated. All mass in the universe resulted from a state of pure energy - that is the accepted Big Bang Theory.

All you really have is an increasing amount of petulance.

Get that a lot from santimonious atheists who are here to lecture everyone and demadn we bask in the glow of their brilliance .... and then someone point out they are factually wrong about something - and the insults and accussations fly.

You atheists get far too emotional far too easily.

 

HMMMMMMMM...... Now what have I declared?

 

This woud be what you claimed:

Except we know that all mass was creted in the Big Bang, from a state of pure energy.

Seriously kiddo, have you been smoking marijuna or something? Short term memory problems where you cannot even remember what you claimed 15 minutes later is not generally a good thing.

Its generally why, when debating, you pick out a thesis statement and support it.

Unfortuantely, a key component of your arguementation is factually wrong - which means you theory in support of atheism, especially given it is a key aspect of your arguement, is fatally flawed.

Well, you are getting emotional - and it is apparently my job to control your temper now?

Agh, and atheists like to say they are rationalists? Emotionalists looks more accurate.

I tell you what - usually this kind of gross mispresentation is the result of indoctrination. Why don;t you simply direct us to the atheist source where you got this silly idea?

 

That's not quite right. The theory is that all matter arose from the energy of the big bang. revol stated at least twice now that mass has always existed. Mass and energy are effectively equivalent. Energy has mass, and vice versa. So if all that existed prior to the big bang was energy, that energy had mass.

 

Do you know what energy is?
Now, do you know what mass is?

Is there mass without energy?
Is there energy without mass?

What about matter?

 

Yep, and there was no matter in the little ball that was the Big Bang - because it was comprised of pure energy.

Eneregy and mass are not the same thing, not by a long shot.

And you still have the hurdle of explaining how a magic ball of pure energy which magically turns into mass rather than radiated heat, comes from?

Obviouosly, this was all created wasn't it?

because before the Big Bang - no eneregy or mass.

I believe this has been spelled out. And we keep coming back to the same point. And atheists are certain that neither eneregy NOR mass can just be magically created - and yet they appear to have been magically created - just once though!

Amazing how that works.

The Big Bang does not take us further away from God - it takes us closer to God.

 

How did they get there in the first place? The Big Bang.

Prior to that - nothing.

So, answer your own questions in light of science.

And then consider the different aspects of a closed and open system - and as we see in another thread, atheists will consider the universe an open system to deny the entrophic aspects of the universe and the increasing amount of order in the system, but a closed system where matter and eneregy are constant ... except for that Big Bang - which apparently then created a closed system.

Its interesting to see atheists advocate the exact opposite claims within a matter of hours.

 

Does anyone remember that simple little equation that made Einstein famous..... How does it go?

Seriously, stop..... I don't want to see this, I want you to gain understanding; not just hang yourself with all the rope you've taken.