Iranian Nuclear Program

Discussion in 'Nuclear, Chemical & Bio Weapons' started by waltky, Aug 24, 2012.

  1. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    While such things are possible and happen all the time...in this case they did try and they admitted to it.

    AboveAlpha
     
  2. flogger

    flogger Well-Known Member

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    They did....... really ?

    You do realise what the first casualty in war always is dont you ?

    Getting back on topic. It might also be understandable now why the Iranian regime might want nukes given they have seen what happened to thier neighbour who didnt have them. Perhaps they dont actually want thier 'regime changed' to one more fitting US sensibilities
     
  3. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    I would like to remind you before I talk about Iran that I was against invading Iraq.

    The Iranian Nuclear Issue has been discussed more times than I care to recall and because of other issues such as Iran violating the NPT...Iran's continued and systematic suppression of the Iranian Democratic Movement, Iranian population being 75% 30 years old and younger, the past history of the Iranian Hostage Crisis as well Iranian Students storming the U.S. Embassy...which is AMERICAN TERRITORY...with the direct orders and consent of the Ayatollah Khomeini...the ABSOLUTE NECESSITY for Iran to be made an example of as it LIED when signing the NPT to be able to buy Nuclear Technology it could not on it's own develop and then begin the current existing program to enrich Uranium to weapons grade using tens of thousands of cetrifuges...Iran throwing out U.N. Nuclear Inspectors as well as removing U.N. Nuclear Observation Cameras...Iranian threats to use it's navy to close the strait of Hormuz which is the Oil Bloodline for much of the world...and many other issues.

    Now the New Elected President of Iran has made it clear he intends to normalize relations with the United States and resolve the Nuclear Issue thus allowing the removal of U.N. Resolutions restricting trade to and from Iran as well as U.S. Imposed restrictions.

    What remains to be seen is if the Iranian President will be allowed by the Iranian Old Guard Religious Leadership to do these things. In the event he tries to do what both he and close to 100% of the Iranian population want and he is stopped and this would most certainly cause MASS PROTESTS....and if the Old Guard uses the Qud's Force and Republican Guard as well as the Religious Secret Police in an attempt to CRUSH such protests...and if this causes any large scale deaths of young protesters...I give it a 1 in 3 chance the CIA will begin to train and supply an Iranian Rebel Force.

    If the Old Guard were to then order the closure of the Strait of Hormuz in response...the United States Military specifically the U.S. Navy's 5th Fleet stationed in Bahrain will OBLITERATE the Iranian Navy, Air Force and all coastal defenses.

    AboveAlpha
     
  4. flogger

    flogger Well-Known Member

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    Hmmm.... yes in hindsight the toppling of the democratically elected Mossadegh government of Iran by the CIA in 1953 and its replacement by the repressive and autocratic puppet Shah for decades might not have been such a good move. Memories are long in this region They dont simply hate you for nothing you know :(
     
  5. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    Yes...I believe I have pointed that out either upon this topic or another specific to Iran.

    That action was done as part of an overall comprehensive plan designed to hold Soviet Expansion in check.

    Such actions were the norm of CIA operations in the 50's and 60's and the long term consequences were not really thought out and if they were...they were considered as negligible as preparations to gain advantages strategically due to the possibility of all out Thermonuclear War with the Soviet Union would have take presidence over any other considerations.

    AboveAlpha
     
  6. flogger

    flogger Well-Known Member

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    I do fully understand that but one could add after that ....... 'and now those chickens have come home to roost' sadly :(
     
  7. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    My family members are members of various branches of the U.S. Military as well as member of a CIVILIAN GROUP and this goes back a long time. I have relatives who were very active during the Cold War 1950's and 1960's era and they absolutely believed that NUCLEAR WAR WAS IMMINENT.

    Issues such as Vietnam...Korea...The Berlin Airlift and Wall...The Cuban Missile Crisis...The Downed over the Soviet Union U-2 Recon Aircraft Piloted by Francis Gary Powers....etc...etc...were all much more important issues of the day.

    After Boris Yeltsin became the Russian Leader after the fall of the Soviet Union....Yeltsin released detailed Soviet Invasion Plans that showed the Soviets had intended to first invade Afghanistan...then bring two Soviet multiple army divisions groups to invade Turkey and the other group would link up with Soviet Forces in Afghanistan and Invade Iran.

    Both Invasion Groups would then travel down both sides of the Arabian Peninsula one through Iraq to Kuwait and the other through Syria, Lebanon, Jordan and Israel and then both would continue on through both sides of Saudi Arabia and eventually all the way down and through Yemen, Oman and the rest of those countries.

    The overall plan was for the Soviet Union to seize control of the entire regions oil wealth as well establish a Naval Bases in Kuwait and Iran...thus giving the Soviet Union and Soviet Navy what it always wanted...A WARM WEATHERED BLUE WATER OPEN OCEAN NAVAL BASES.

    This was an absolute must if the Soviet Union was to be able to deal with the U.S. Navy as it's plans were for conventional warfare and given the massive size of the USN...the Soviets needed to build more ships at a warm weather location that was not ICE LOCKED most of the year.

    What the Soviets were wary of and they were right to be wary is the U.S. counter plan to strike back with tactical nuclear weapons should the Soviets invade Europe in mass.

    Yeltsin made it clear that the Soviet Union was gambling that the U.S. would not risk Nuclear War over the Middle East. Thus would allow the Soviets time to build a Navy and catch up with the U.S. in various military areas.

    The Soviet Union was wrong in their plans as the Carter Doctrine was developed stating any Invasion attempt upon the Middle Easter Oil Fields would be considered a Direct Attack upon the National Security of the United States meriting any and all Military means of repelling such an invasion.

    AboveAlpha
     
  8. flogger

    flogger Well-Known Member

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    I served as a Royal Air Force officer 1977-85 during one of the coldest phases of the Cold War and am well familiar with the political scenario prevelent at this time. It was a hideous time for my country as less than a quarter of our populace was expected to survive the crossfire between the superpowers. We didnt know it at the time but the USSR were listening to our practice operation Able Archer of 1983 simulating a nuclear attack and it nearly kicked off WW3 so high were the tensions at this after Reagans 'evil empire' speech. :shock:
     
  9. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    A am VERY familiar with Able Archer and the Soviet Generals were SCREAMING for the go ahead to launch as if they did not and this was an actual Nuclear Countdown by NATO and the U.S....Soviet ICBM's which were primarily all Liquid Fueled...would be sitting ducks and destroyed by highly accurate U.S. Tactical Intermediate Range Missiles.

    AboveAlpha
     
  10. flogger

    flogger Well-Known Member

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    Thats wonderful for the US land based ICBMs but I think the Soviet Typhoon subs might have cleaned your clocks after that though. Those MIRVed SS-N-20 missiles would have settled any issue. Your silos might survive but your cities would'nt and after that niether would thiers :(

    Unfortunately all of Western Europe would have been taken out by mobile solid fueled IRBM SS20s in the interim :(

    When people prattle on today about Iranian nukes and the lack of security they represent they dont know they are born frankly. Thank god we live in far safer times today !
     
  11. highlander

    highlander Banned

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    Semantics.

    I'll do better than that, just to show how wrong you are, try looking up America is not a country it's a corporation, and see how easily fooled you really are!

    Regards
    Highlander
     
  12. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    Let me tell you something.

    Even though I sometimes work with members of the U.S. Military I am NOT Military....I am..."CIVILIAN"...in the manner the quotes denote.

    This is due to a very long term relationship that is specific to my FAMILY members who are also both Military and..."CIVILIAN".

    I have NO BOSS, AM UNDER NO OBLIGATION...with the exception of a good friend I owe...and I CAN REFUSE TO DO ANY JOB I FIND OBJECTIONABLE.

    The reasons for this is that I am very good at what I do and I have over a 99% success rate and this record includes ZERO MORTAL CASUALTIES to my Team.

    If you think a person such as myself with over 3 decades of experience doing this...JOB...doesn't know EXACTLY who I am doing it for and would not know the who's, what's, why's and when's specific to such a JOB...well then you are SORELY MISTAKEN!

    EVERYTHING I have ever done I have meticulously researched, cross referenced and studied to the N'th...and as I have stated...because I have no CONTROLLER....as well I AM NOT A HUMAN RESOURCE AND CANNOT BE LABELED AN ASSET.

    I on occasion am ASKED...politely...if I might be interested in JUST LOOKING at some aspects of a PROBLEM that my skill set is suited to SOLVE. I DO NOT have to take the...JOB. And I am in no way as you have stated....EASILY FOOLED.

    Yes...their are Corporations that have BOUGHT CONGRESSMEN AND SENATORS. YES...many times specific Military actions have been ordered because the Leadership of another Group or Government is stepping on the TOES of U.S. Based Corporations.

    And...YES...without a doubt....the United States Military and Intelligent Agencies are BY FAR....the most powerful and informed upon Planet Earth. The disparity between those of the United States and other countries is unbelievable...take it from someone who knows.

    RIGHT NOW....if the United States felt it to be necessary....and I have been in meetings talking about what would be the response should either Iran or North Korea attempt NUCLEAR BLACKMAIL....or if Iran use it's Navy to Close the Strait of Hormuz....or if China were to attempt an Invasion of Taiwan...the U.S. Military is FULLY CAPABLE of swiftly and decisively defeating, preventing or obliterating any other countries Military Force and do so even if two to three simultaneously.

    What the general public has seen of U.S. Military capabilities is but things developed in the 60's and 70's and first used in the 1980's with the exception of the B-2 and F-22.

    The true depth of the Ultra-High Technology U.S. Secret Weapon Systems has never been publicly shown and never would be unless they were used in Military Campaigns where keeping civilian populations casualties low would be a MUST as well as preserving the ability to produce OIL.

    IRAN...is such a state and I am happy about the election of their new leader but in the event the old Religious Guard were to refuse to allow his new policy to engage the United States and solve the Iranian Nuclear Issue by arresting him and cracking down hard upon the resulting Iranian Populations Mass Protests....and possibly the Old Guard would call in the Iranian Qud's Force, Secret Police and Republican Guard to do so resulting in huge Iranian Population Casualties.

    If this happened the United States would without a doubt arm and supply the Iranian Democratic Insurgency that already exists but has waited to launch any violent actions but because the New Iranian President would be arrested by the Old Guard at this point....they would no longer be compelled to remain as a peaceful group seeking change.

    AT THAT POINT....the Old Guard would order their Navy to Close the Strait of Hormuz.

    THAT ACTION....would not be allowed as it would be closing the worlds oil life line and the United States Military would act.

    Now if this did happen it is 50/50 that the Iranian Navy would STAND DOWN as the Iranian Naval Leadership is under no illusions what the result would be to close the strait and as they would be the ones doing the DYING...it is thought there would be a 50% CHANCE they might refuse such an order thus this would be the most desired result as all other Iranian Military Branches would soon follow with the exception of the Qud's Force and some Republican Guard Divisions.

    But if these elements of the Iranian Military were to see the writing on the wall if over 80% of the Iranian Military stood down as well as the Iranian Population backing the Iranian Democracy Insurgency....the Old Guard would FALL both quickly and easily.

    NOW IF THE IRANIAN NAVY DIDN'T STAND DOWN....the United States would have no choice but to destroy the Iranian Navy, Seize all Iranian Nuclear Sites and Destroy the Iranian Air Force, Coastal Defenses, Radar and Warning Systems, Command and Control and if after the initial U.S. Military attack did not cause the Iranian Military and Old Guard to acquiesce....AT THAT MOMENT....The United States would authorize the use of ULTRA-HIGH TECHNOLOGY SECRET WEAPON SYSTEMS in an effort to keep the Iranian Populations from incurring MASS CASUALTIES.

    The specific area such weapons would be needed for use if in protecting the Tens of Thousands of U.S. Military Special Forces and Rangers and most likely the 101st Airborne Division that would air drop in to seize Iranian Nuclear Sites.

    Now B-52's, B-1's would be used to destroy entire Iranian Republican Guard Divisions but in order to prevent the deaths of possibly over a MILLION Iranian's the U.S. Air Force would drop NON-NUCLEAR EMP....Electromagnetic Pulse....DEVICES from B-2's and as well two smaller EMP's can fit in the internal bomb bay's of an F-22 Raptor.

    By using these ENTIRE IRANIAN MECHANIZED DIVISIONS could be rendered inert or USELESS. Tank Engines wouldn't start, Radar Systems wouldn't work, Computerized Targeting would not boot up...basically anything that works with an electronic chip or even a vehicles SOLENOID....would be burned out and thus nothing would work.

    In the event an Iranian Underground Nuclear Site was impossible to get to using troops if the Iranian's were under Lock Down inside a mountain or deep underground the U.S. Air Force and Space Command would use a "ROD'S OF GOD" Space Based Ultra-High Velocity Kinetic Impact Device...which is a Telephone Pole sized Depleted Uranium wrapped in Tungsten Steel wrapped in Ceramic Reentry Coating.

    This Telephone Pole sized weapon has a small rocket motor on it's end and once released from an orbiting satellite is directed by the small rocket motor to reenter Earth's atmosphere at extremely high velocity and impact a target at between 24 to 28 Thousand Miles Per Hour...or greater.

    Since Force = Mass Times Acceleration or F=MA....this super heavy depleted uranium and steel missile accelerating at a target and impacting it at Hypersonic Velocity releases the some Force and Energy that a small Nuclear Weapon would.

    The fact that such an impact is more directional than a Nuke would allow this ROD OF GOD to penetrate deep into any underground or under mountain Iranian Nuclear Site and destroy it.

    Now these scenarios and use of Ultra-High Tech. U.s. Weapon Systems are something I and I think everyone else would hope to avoid. But make no mistake....if it had to...the United States could do these things. Let's all hope no Nation pushes it that far.

    AboveAlpha
     
  13. Snappo

    Snappo Banned

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    Candidly I think she has the skill to make weapons now. From everything I have read, Irani nuclear scientists were in North Korea for the nuclear tests. I'm guessing she just needs material now.

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/feb/15/iranian-scientists-believed-have-attended-north-ko/

    Iranian scientists believed to have attended North Korean nuclear test, report says

    Iranian scientists may have been on hand to witness North Korea’s underground nuclear test, according to one Western diplomat.

    The source, unnamed but described as having knowledge of inside Iran-North Korea talks and ties, according to United Press International, said an Iranian presence would mean the international community is likely right — that Iran is actively and aggressively pursuing development of nuclear weapons.

    According to UPI, the source said that Iran may have paid Pyongyang tens of millions of dollars — in Chinese currency — to obtain access to the test. The Jerusalem Post, too, reported on suspicions of Iran’s presence at the Tuesday test.

    “The most disturbing question is whether the Iranians are using North Korea as a back-door plan for their own nuclear program,” Alon Levkowitz, a coordinator of Bar-Ilan University’s Asian Studies Program, said in the Post report. “The Iranians didn’t carry out a nuclear test in Iran, but they may have done so in North Korea.”
     
  14. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    If you were to walk down the street a little while back before the war in downtown Damascus....you would see young Syrians wearing T-Shirts given to them by Hamas, Hezbollah and Islamic Jihad of a picture of a MUSHROOM CLOUD with the words in Arabic....ISLAMIC NUCLEAR BOMB...OR...MUSLIM BOMB.

    Iran being primarily Shiite or Shia...sends huge amounts of money and weapons to Syria for Hamas, Hezbollah and Islamic Jihad to carry out operations against Israel.

    As well the Assad Regime takes a CUT of such money and arms aid as a Broker Fee.

    AboveAlpha
     
  15. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    At the time a majority of Soviet Missile Subs had to surface first then launch their Missiles. At this time they were just starting to deploy Subs capable of underwater launch and the ones they had at sea that could do this were SO UNRELIABLE that rather than bring them in for upgrades....the Communist Leadership decided to BLUFF...allowing their subs with missiles that had just a 1 in 3 chance of making it to the surface and igniting properly to stay at sea because they feared to admit this design flaw would embolden Reagan to take an even harder stance against them.

    The SS-20's were the ones to worry about as far as NATO was concerned but when the Pershing II Intermediate Range Missiles were placed into the European Theater....along with REAL TIME Satellite Tracking...the SS-20's would have been destroyed long before they could have been launched.

    The SS-20's were at one time considered to be impossible to track as they were highly mobile and could hide just about anywhere. This threat was countered in December 1983 as the Pershing's could not only hit their targets in a matter of minutes as 108 were deployed in West Germany but as well were so accurate that they could literally perform PIN POINT DIRECT HITS upon any target.

    As well they were capable of extreme Ground Penetration and the Soviets feared the Pershing II more so than any other weapon system in the European Theater.

    At a moments notice a Pershing II being they were Solid Fueled could accept data for a target, launch, obtain Mach 9 velocities and having a 1,100 Mile Range strike targets not only in Easter Europe but deep into the Soviet Union.

    Traveling at 6300 Miles per Hour Pershing II's could strike mobile Soviet SS-20's placed in Easter Europe within 2 to 5 minutes. It could strike deep into the Soviet Union up to 1,100 Miles away within 7 to 10 Minutes.

    That SCARED THE HELL out of the Soviets as it was possible the United States and NATO could decapitate Soviet Command and Control...MOSCOW is just 999 Miles away from Berlin....as this Intermediate missile could be fired and strike a target so quickly that the Soviets would not have time to respond.

    With REAL TIME Satellite Tracking as well as Satellite Magnetometers SS-20 Mobile Launchers could be located, targeted and destroyed BEFORE Soviet Missile Command for the European Theater could fire the SS-20's.

    IRAN is said to be now purchasing SS-20 Missiles...NOT THE WARHEADS...from Russia.

    This will be a problem.

    AboveAlpha
     
  16. Lost Time

    Lost Time New Member

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    Very good analysis of the Pershing II although a bit exaggerated and not Pershing II were deployed in Berlin at the time.
     
  17. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    Pershing II's were first deployed to West Germany in Dec. 1983.

    Granted Berlin was inside East Germany but still since the Pershing II's range was 1,100 Miles and Berlin is 999 miles from Moscow it could still strike Moscow from other parts of West Germany.

    AboveAlpha
     
  18. supermax

    supermax New Member

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    hi guys
    Why is boycotting Iran?
    Everything here is expensive. $ 1 a 32000 Rial
    Iran's currency was devalued
    Here's difficult to buy a mobile ...
    Iran wants to build nuclear bomb or hydrogen
    I do not know what America wants from Iran to put pressure on these people
    We don't Like to fight any body...we don't hate americans and any
    other countries in the world
     
  19. Herkdriver

    Herkdriver New Member

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    America and Israel fear Iran will sell or give weapons grade uranium / plutonium to a terrorist organization which are openly hostile towards Israel.
     
  20. supermax

    supermax New Member

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    Israel must be destroyed
    Because a lot of Muslims killed for no reason
     
  21. Lien

    Lien Banned

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    So you accept yourself as muslim ?
     
  22. Herkdriver

    Herkdriver New Member

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    This is why there are sanctions against Iran. Israel is considered an ally to the West. Iran threatens Israel's existence and nuclear weapons will not be tolerated.
     
  23. supermax

    supermax New Member

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    I may have to accept a Muslim.
    But I am against the killing of innocent people in Iraq, Syria and Palestine. Not because of their Muslim
    Iran threatens Israel was aware that something was
    (*) Iran's no reason why it could
     
  24. supermax

    supermax New Member

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    We have nothing to do with what you have, every time we came and told us that you would do in America's national ZmaygahJust because you have a new facility or enrichment of nuclear submarines or why you're renovating or ...... Then you ask the same of us.
    (*) Iran is a sovereign state and its territory is released under international law every
    No business wants to do to you, do not
     
  25. supermax

    supermax New Member

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    The sanctions against any country in the world if you get really, dying from hunger. Again, I am proud of my country.
     

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