Is addiction a disease ( are the 12-Steps religious)?

Some of friends attend 12-Step meetings. I try to support them as much a humanly possible. I've read through the so-called "Big Book", trying to keep an open mind. The Chapter called "we agnostics" made me throw the book across the room when I first read it. More recent attempts, however, have been more sobering ( no pun intended).

The addiction treatment field is dominated by the 12-Step recovery approach. Many of professionals advance the theory that addiction is a disease, as fact. In actuality, there appears to be substantial disagreement that it is a disease. But you won't ever hear that in the rooms of 12-Step meetings. I find that curious.

In my readings and talks with those in the program, I've come to understand that they ( many in the 12-Step program) see it as more of a spiritual disease, than a medical one. However, again, many professionals assert that there is compelling medical evidence that it's genetic in nature. As stated, other professional dispute these findings. This too I find curious.

Another thing I find curious is this spiritual argument. It is said that the program is a "spiritual program, not religious". However, with only a cursory research effort, it's evident that this is not the position taken by a great many individuals. In fact, what I've found, for instance, is that it's been declared to be religious in nature by numerous court rulings. I'm not sure what the disposition of it's religious status is presently. However, my understanding is that these court rulings are authoritative as legal precedent nation wide.

Curiouser and curiouser.

Meh, I say this.
As long as it helps those who sincerely want to stay sober, what difference does it make if it's a disease, or if it's a religion?

On the other hand, if it's being used to establish a State Religion ( ie, in sentencing, public social programs, etc), that's something to be avoided.

Your thoughts are certainly welcome.

 

AA is a religious organization. Its program doesn't do anything either; the rates of people who quit drinking on their own and quit through AA are the same. That the courts sentence people to this religious activity that does nothing is a travesty.

 

AA is a religious organization resembling a cult more than anything.

However, just because addiction isn't quite a disease doesn't exactly mean it's a matter of simple will-power either. A lot of long term addicts have a genetic predisposition towards addictive behavioral patterns which means that even being around a person that happens to do coke could be enough to cause them to relapse...whereas some people just do stuff and then they stop.

Not everybody that shoots up heroin once or does a line of coke gets addicted, but people who are in the environment to do that sort of thing on a regular basis typically have a genetic predisposition towards such behavior.

 

I would consider certain addictions to be diseases. Substances that are physically auditing change your bodies chemistry to need them to function normally. Physical side effects of some addictions can be serious. Withdrawl from certain substances can be life threatening, and require medical attention.

To me, the fact that it is self inflicted doesnt really matter.

 

The only reason I would disagree with this is because smoking is not considered a disease. Yet it can result in cancer. Same with addiction. It can result in the symptoms that you describe, but that, in of itself, doesn't make it a disease.

 

Addiction is a Disease... not much else to say.

 

Not according to the latest science. According to the latest science the biological components necessary to identify addiction as a disease haven't been identified. Plus if it were a disease, it wouldn't resolve through a persons own self will and behavioral modification.

 

Simply because Science hasn't found any identifiers for it to classified as a disease therefore it shouldn't be considered one? What should we consider it than? Criminal Offense? Ha.

You're right that the chances of getting addicted again are there but, you can control your mind so you're in control not the Disease.

 

Do you know of any other diseases you can control with your mind?

 

Just like all diseases they have their own cures... there isn't a One Solution to everything. Just as I said earlier about Preventing your addictions from taking place by taking control you can also do that by dieting too. If you weigh 400+Ibs and are endanger of Heart Disease you can easily exercise/diet to prevent it from taking place.

Edit: Easily isn't the best word... because the Willpower to do something takes quite a lot but, once you finally have it you can do anything.

 

I think that medical doctors need to be consulted. They can give a more adequate explanation of the definition of disease than us non-medical doctors can. I'm sure there is a debate in the medical community about this. I would much rather learn more about the debate in the medical field than read about some wacked out religious/spriritual interpretation or the uneducated drabble of baseless opinions presented by the unqualified individuals on this thread.

 

Just having a friendly conversation!

 

There's always a catch. With weight...people typically begin to eat a lot of food due to events that have taken place (with the exception of those with thyroid disorders/extremely slow metabolisms) and eventually, your hormones adjust to that pattern as normal through leptin (the hormone which signals fullness typically) production stabilizing. After a week of calorie restriction, that person's leptin levels will likely drop, signaling 'starvation mode.' It is possible to lose weight (I went from 200 to 140ish), but crackpot methods which most people tend to follow make it much harder, and a person gaining the weight back is not entirely a sign of weakness. The best thing to do is find other methods of coping when you face difficulties, and don't let that vice, whether it be food or meth, control you.

 

I lost weight in a similar fashion of going through starvation mode... was quite brutal but, 16 months of training my mind and body I finally achieved what I wanted.

 

Gotcha. I remembered hearing about stories of people curing diseases through meditation and chanting after I posted my last comment. I heard it from a nurse practitioner and checked it out on the internet one day. Very interesting stories of how doctors encountered recoveries beyond what their medical expertise could explain.

I agree with your comments about dieting.

 

I tend to agree with you look at the Alcohol problem in New Zealand, it's rapidly approaching pandemic proportions. The population there appears to be in one of 2 conditions, falling down drunk or hungover waiting for the next bender.

 

I think atheists are entirely too paranoid about things like state religions. Not you necessarily since you didn't really even claim to be an atheist, but atheists in general are fast becoming one of society's peskiest pariah groups.

 

I think atheists are organizing more these days. And the media are picking up on that.

In America, it's fashionable to be a member of a group trying to be perceived as victims.

 

So you'd have no problem with being forced by the state to attend group functions with a group whose plan to help you (which doesn't work by the way) includes rejecting the belief of any god or afterlife?

 

It's not about being victims, and the people who object to religious influence in government are not all atheists. There are religious people out there who realize the benefit to religious freedom that a government being religiously neutral brings.

 

AA is a cult and Narconon is literally a front organization for Scientology.

Nobody should ever be forced to join these organizations.

 

AA has been held by two courts to be a religion. RR, Rational Recovery, is AA without the "higher power" business. It hasn't been legally found to be a religion so I would say 12-step programs are not necessarily a religion. Even if they were, it certainly would have anything to do with establish a state religion.

Addiction is a choice and not a disease. Too many of my friends have chosen to quit drinking for it to be a disease. I tried to quit having the flu and it never worked for me. Another friend tried to quite being HIV positive. That didn't work either. There are medical conditions, such as diabetes, which you also can't quit but I don't think they're counted as a disease.

No, being an addict is a choice. When people want to quit being an addict, they quit. They don't quit when their wife or their boss or their friends or the government tells them to quit but when they decide it's time to quit, they quit.

Being fat is because you take in a lot more food than you burn up in exercise. That's it. The reasons are quite different between men and women and between individuals. As for the low metabolism and other causes besides overeating, I ask you, how many of the pictures showing prisoners lined up in Nazi concentration camps showed fat prisoners. One out of a hundred prisoners was fat? One out of fifty? How many fat people did you see in those pictures, not counting Nazis? (*)(*)(*)(*), not a single one of those really special people who can get fat without eating were in any of those pictures.

And almost anything can be religious depending on how an individual approaches it. I would say when Chris Matthews listens to President Obama and his leg gets all tingly it's a religious experience. Or, how about Newsweek editor Evan Thomas who said that President Obama was "sort of God." Is the addiction a religion rather than the groups seeking to end addictions? The drunks have their gathering places, their faith, the brotherhood, and the fear of most religions.

 

AA is clearly attempting to do what most religions attempt to do. Prey on the weak at a moment of trauma to attempt to indoctrinate a belief and reliance in a higher power.

As a method of treatment, enforcing a codependent relationship with the almighty absolves the willful participant of their eventual failure.

1 We admitted we were powerless over alcohol—that our lives had become unmanageable.
2 Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.
3 Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.
4 Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.
5 Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.
6 Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.
7 Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings.
8 Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.
9 Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.
10 Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it.
11 Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out.
12 Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics, and to practice these principles in all our affairs.

Results are the same with or without the program.

 

I can't say it's a disease, but calling it a disease removes the person's best power -- the thought that they have power over it. AA and the like seem like defeatism couched as treatment.

You are diseased. You have no power to control your disease, at least without attending a AA meeting once a week. It's not your fault.

The weird things is that if you are not responsible for getting in that mess, then you can't really get out of that mess either. It's a force that cannot be resisted.

I won't say it's easy -- but if you don't think you have any power over the situation, you can't get out. You'll have to be rescued.

 

It's been found to be religious by more than just a few courts. I'm unaware of any Court EVER ruling that it wasn't. It's the establishment of a State religion when the State mandates attendance in religious activities. Most, if not all, of the case brought against the 12-Step were based on the establishment clause and that by mandating attendance in such groups, it establishes a State religion.

Rational Recovery is nothing like the 12-Steps. In fact, it's almost the complete opposite. The 12-Steps focus is on seeking some sort of divine intervention from a external source. And relies on peer pressure and "group consciousness". Whereas Rational Recovery discourages attendance in any group recovery model. It's based on something called Addictive Voice Recognition Technique (AVRT).