Is compulsory military service immoral?

Because it doesn't have anything to do with patriotism. It is a protest of police brutality. Or at least it was until Trump made it all about him.

 

What unlimited access to information do the people on North Korea, China, or Iran have? If you were South Korea today, how would you stop the North Koreans from conquering your country with no military and without "murdering" anyone? How would you educate the North Korean people when they have absolute state controlled media and no contact with the outside world?

 

What was there you didn't understand about "all but a few suppressed nations" and "All intellectuals can do is their best" and "We will likely always have wars anyway"? Do you really expect me to have a solution to ending all wars? Do you believe that arming everyone will ever end all wars? Is that supposed to be a solution or part of the problem? Human beings have been warring for hundreds of thousands of years and the species hasn't grown much out of its savagery despite technology. There can be only 2 possible outcomes, they will either LEARN to end all wars via education or destroy themselves.

 

You seem to believe that no country should have an army. So how would you as South Korea stop the North from conquering you without a military?

 

If no country had a military there would likely be no war, correct? There's your solution. Is that going to happen any time soon? Of course not. Edoocashun son.

 

But so long as countries do have militaries, especially brutal totalitarian dictatorships, then other countries need militaries as well, yes? And under those circumstances that hate you pile on soldiers is unjustified, correct?

 

I was responding to issues with war and pacifists. Some on here seem to be so opposed to war that they wouldn't mind if we were invaded and would just sit back and surrender.

 

I never felt like a slave, more like a job in many places around the world.

 

So you think war is never necessary. I guess after December 7, 1941 we didn't have to go to war then.

 

Can you imagine any reason in your mind that would justify going to war?

 

Did you serve at the point of a government gun against your will?

 

We live in a nation of professing Christians. The vast majority of Americans from the deluded political right wing succumbs to the illusion that the USA was founded as a Christian nation. If they really believe their Bible, they would know that combat is NOT necessary in order to win a war:

Psalm 27
Psalm 81:13-15
Deut 28:7
Isaiah 41:12
I Sam 8:20
Luke 1:69-75




On that basis, forum right wingers should DEMAND the dissolution of the military industrial corporate welfare complex because it represents Satanic treason.

 

You're about the 3rd poster who desperately wants to make this issue about me. I will repeat for the umpteenth time, war is still a war crime and a racket, no matter how much you want to make this about me. Nothing will ever change that. Having said that, if a human has no choice, it's one thing. In the US, that's certainly not the case. Even when there was a draft, there was still a choice. Muhammed Ali, for example, made his choice. Those who avoided the draft (me included) had a choice. The primary responsibility lies of course with government. The person who volunteers knows or should know full well that he/she is going to be trained to murder people and possibly will carry that out. That person made a choice. If that person believes it's all for some kind of adventure or a patriotic duty then he/she is gullible and/or ignorant. That person needs an education. This is not about "hatred", this is about reality. And the reality is that all those who commit genocide and other war crimes are fully responsible for their actions, unless somehow they have no choice. But I find that difficult to swallow. I personally would rather be executed than murder an innocent person. But then again, this is not about me.

NO. There is never any justification to go to war.

 

If in your opinion there is never a justification to go to war then you would be okay other people or countries taking over your nation without opposition. If you believe this nationally then you would also believe it would be okay for other people to walk into your house and take everything you own or kill your family while you just sit there and watch. So yes this is about you because it is your belief that is in question here. War itself is not a war crime just because you say it is. There are rules for war around the world and failing to abide by those rules can make some actions in the war a war crime.

 

Had I not joined the Navy I would have been drafted. I have also known many who were drafted and they were not locked up or held a gun point, they were free to do what they wanted after hours just like I was. I have raised many a glass with them.

 

Trump did nothing but jump on the bandwagon that was already rolling on this issue. He took a side and he took the correct one.

 

and in a nation of professing Christians, there are rules to be obeyed along those lines as well

 

Not interested in your insanely convoluted characterization of my "opinion".

 

Rules of war. The concept is for the insane. These rules are for the sane.

NUREMBERG PRINCIPLES

Principle I

Any person who commits an act which constitutes a crime under international law is responsible therefor and liable to punishment.

Principle II

The fact that internal law does not impose a penalty for an act which constitutes a crime under international law does not relieve the person who committed the act from responsibility under international law.

Principle III

The fact that a person who committed an act which constitutes a crime under international law acted as Head of State or responsible government official does not relieve him from responsibility under international law.

Principle IV

The fact that a person acted pursuant to order of his Government or of a superior does not relieve him from responsibility under international law, provided a moral choice was in fact possible to him.

Principle V

Any person charged with a crime under international law has the right to a fair trial on the facts and law.

Principle VI

The crimes hereinafter set out are punishable as crimes under international law:

a. Crimes against peace: (i) Planning, preparation, initiation or waging of war of aggression or a war in violation of international treaties, agreements or assurances; (ii) Participation in a common plan or conspiracy for the accomplishment of any of the acts mentioned under (i).

b. War crimes: Violations of the laws or customs of war which include, but are not limited to, murder, ill-treatment or deportation to slave labor or for any other purpose of civilian population of or in occupied territory, murder or ill-treatment of prisoners of war or persons on the seas, killing of hostages, plunder of public or private property, wanton destruction of cities, towns, or villages, or devastation not justified by military necessity.

c. Crimes against humanity: Atrocities and offenses, including but not limited to murder, extermination, deportation, imprisonment, torture, rape, or other inhumane acts committed against any civilian population, or persecutions on political, racial or religious grounds whether or not in violation of the domestic laws of the country where perpetrated.

Principle VII

Complicity in the commission of a crime against peace, a war crime, or a crime against humanity as set forth in Principle VI is a crime under international law.

Sources: Charter of the International Military Tribunal, Aug. 8, 1945, 59 Stat. 546, 546-47. The U.N. General Assembly unanimously affirmed "the principles of international law recognized by the Charter of Nuremberg Tribunal & the judgment of the Tribunal." G.A. Res. 95(I), 188 U.N. Doc. A/64/Add.1 (1946); International Law Commission formulation. [1950] 2 Y.B. Int'l L. Comm'n 374-78. U.N. Doc. A/CN.4/SER.A/ 1950/Add 1. The Principles are set forth in Dep't of the U.S. Army, Field Manual FM2710, The Law of Land Warfare sec. 498511(1956).

 

So defendIng yourself against invasion by an external hostile power is a “crime”, a “racket”, and “unjustified”?

 

So they could have walked away from their service at any time with no government reprisals against them?

 

He opened his fat narcissist mouth and made the whole issue about him.

 

Only to those like you did the issue become about him. To the rest of us he just took the right side in the issue.

 

No objectively it became about him the instant he opened his mouth. Why do you think taking a knee exploded after he involved himself in the debate? Kneeling became about rejecting Trump.

 

Again only to people like you did it become about rejecting Trump. Kneeling began when Obama was president and continued while Trump was president and will not be with us next season when Trump is president. It has run it's course.