According to near-death experiencers, and according to the logic of Oneness, you are your own judge & jury. So it's all good.
I mean the Stoics said if life gets bad enough you can always kill yourself. In Japan suicide is honorable. Hitler gave Rommel the more honorable option of killing himself rather than being executed. Many cultures look at suicide as not amoral but as honorable The Christians in America look at life as the sanctity of life and we all seem to absorb this through cultural osmosis, but is suicide amoral many societies look at is as honorable.
Good question...... I like the way that near death experiencer Christian Andreason explained how pointless suicide is...... suicide does not work...... we just add another problem to our list..... that we face in the next invisible dimension that we find ourselves in. http://www.allaboutchristian.com/spirituality/index.html
Near death experiencer George Ritchie was shown that people who commit suicide can get stuck in a depressing place in the afterlife......... suicide is an astonishingly bad idea........ https://near-death.com/george-ritchie-nde/ For pain relief... I recommend MSM... I am taking high levels of MSM that is in powdered form... the one for horses....... www.msm-info.com/ In a way if you begin to research MSM today on yourself... you will be able to tell others about what you find out by doing that research on yourself. https://www.amazon.ca/Miracle-MSM-Natural-Solution-Pain-ebook/dp/B002JF1MZ6
In your vote you did not provide the option that it may be like this for some and the opposite for others. If God did not give a clear prohibition against suicide, then we must be careful not to add our own rules to the commandments.
If you are an allied spy in German occupied territory in 1942...... and you are about to be captured by the Gestapo .... then because you know that most people break... your choosing to take your own life would be to protect others....... which is different from just giving up....... In my opinion if somebody is contemplating suicide they should begin to do some serious research on spirituality and begin to pray and ask for guidance..... you could even literally raise your right hand in the air and quote Isaiah chapter forty five... and ask to be taken by the right hand...... I actually did that myself back in 1990 and within a decade all of my major questions had been answered...... The NDE of former Atheist Howard Storm is awesome.... https://near-death.com/howard-storm-nde/ I admit that ultimately it would work out for good... because then our eternal spiritual life form would have more empathy and compassion for the souls who committed suicide.... but...... ..... it is still a very dangerous decision to make..... From 2020 to 2031 is going to be a fascinating time period......
I wouldn't say 'dangerous' per se, but yes I do agree it can potentially get one 'stuck' temporarily in the lower levels of the astral because of one's emotional state at death and/or one's beliefs about the afterlife. An emotional state that one cannot let go of can be viewed as an earthly attachment that needs to be 'worked out' because they're a burden (like baggage) that keeps one bound to the earthly realms, and thus needs to be discarded. The astral is the place where we do that. Some are so heavily burdened by the weight of their attachments that they have great difficulty escaping this self-generated gloomy reality - and may feel the urge to ask for help. Then God (one's higher/God-self) shows up as a light that pulls them out of that dark reality. Ultimately, all will make their way out of these doldrums of the astral if they find themselves there, and will return to their spiritual home. When we exit the physical body, therefore, it's best to detach ourselves completely from all earthly attachments, as they are not really compatible with the higher realms which are perhaps indescribable in human/earthly terms. The following near death experiencer (Dennis Bullock) brings up this issue of getting stuck in our own mental world on the other side, and which may compel some souls to call out for help. His whole story is fascinating, but you can skip to 33:58 where he begins talking about how we create our own realities on the other side.
Just so we are all on the same page. Amoral - lacking a moral sense; unconcerned with the rightness or wrongness of something: having or showing no concern about whether behavior is morally right or wrong: lying outside the sphere to which moral judgments apply. Immoral - not conforming to accepted standards of morality; not moral, broadly : conflicting with generally or traditionally held moral principles,in violation of moral laws, norms or standards. now we can discuss this better.
Yes.... I was wondering myself about the poll question due to the use of that word..... "amoral"...... when somebody commits suicide they have no clue about how hard their choice will affect everybody who genuinely cares about them..... or they have a terribly twisted idea about how little anybody will really care or be affected by their choice to end their lives. JCS.... I truly believe that your post is brilliant and I am sure that I will love the video once I get the time to listen to it...... in a nutshell one of the terrible risks about suicide is that while we are here in this human body we have no idea how TIME can be perceived within seven minutes of what we will be thinking once we pass on into the next level..... which is the FIVE dimensional space time continuum where electromagnetism is a component of gravity.... but TIME is different. I gave a quotation about that in my blog: www.CarbonBias.blogspot.ca/ Former Atheist Rabbi Alon Anava states that his seven minute near death experience seemed to him to take about two billion years....... he is NOT KIDDING!!!!??? In the next level above our four dimensional space - time continuum.... TIME feels different..... and choosing to take our own lives can get us into a serious guilt trip of shame and despair that although.... yes... we eventually will be broken out of that state but..... by the end of our trip we will have developed what cold be termed.... Sympathy even for The Devil or Satan?! Some people who commit suicide may become like the zombie like former humans that former Atheist Howard Storm met during the first part of his near death experience....... What can appear to us to be a two billion year humiliation and lesson in morality..... can cause us to look altogether differently at Leviticus chapter sixteen where background information is given for the Fast of Yom Kippur. I believe that Rabbi Alon Anava has a special understanding of Isaiah chapter fifty three because Rabbi Alon FELT CRUSHED by the extreme weight of six thousand years of Jewish history and human experience...... I personally believe that the 2001 brush with death by Rabbi Alon Anava was a set up so that Jewish thinkers at this time can look at hidden meaning in both Yom Kippur as well as in Passover in a whole new light. I hinted at this over in this other discussion: JCS.... YOU could easily write a best selling book about this..... and I could easily help you...... my suggestion for your next step is here: Your nomination for Nobel Prize in Literature?
I don't think it is amoral, but I think it denies us the chance to learn the lessons we incarnated to learn in this lifetime. I believe that if one commits suicide they will need to learn those lessons that they failed to get to in their next incarnation. I suppose it is a bump in the road, but in the end, everyone returns to god, before the cycle of existence begins again, infinitely. In some cases I suppose it could be that the suicide itself IS the lesson, so a consciousness or soul can understand that suicide does not solve anything, and all experiences must be faced eventually on the return to the realization of what we truly are, which is the only thing that actually exists...God.
It certainly is for me. I tend to look at *most* suicide as a self inflicted tragedy. Exceptions certainly made in cases such as incurable illness or sacrificing oneself to save another. If its just 'life is sad', then its also a pretty illogical assumption that life cant get better, an assertion of being able to predict the future and knowing that nothing will ever be worth it. Which seems ridiculous to me. Anything can happen, even in the next 5 minutes something could change that makes life liveable again. Certainly in the next month or year or 20.
Yes, there are numerous NDE experiencers who report how a short time being 'dead' on earth seems like millions of years on the other side. It's quite a revealing clue on the nature of time. In my simple mind, I like to view time as 'energy spread out' - like a reel of film with frames that are laid out in linear fashion. I believe the physical brain is the 'projector' that allows for the experience of 'slow' linear time, but that it can be altered (by chemicals, herbs, illness/injury, paranormal experiences, meditation, etc.) to The more the energy becomes condensed/concentrated, the less relevant time becomes - as if all the frames of a movie reel become one frame so that 'past & future' coexist simultaneously, becoming no more but the eternal now. In this reality, the manifestation of one's thoughts/desires/beliefs is instantaneous. So one's experience on the 'other side', in the realm of pure energy (love/Oneness), can feel like a million years had passed - as if one tasted eternity - while one's body was clinically dead for only a few minutes. An intriguing thing sometimes reported by NDE experiencers is that beings on the other side will find the experiencer's predicament humorous & not take their physical life seriously. I recall a lady years ago who reported, after 'dying' in a car crash, that she was given the choice of which condition she wanted to be in upon returning to her body. The beings showed her various scenarios/disabilities she could choose from, which they found humorous and would laugh at - from needing an amputation, to being in a wheelchair, to brain damage, and other disabilities. The beings were literally tickled by it - I suppose the way we might feel if we played a disabled character in a play. (It can be funny, and certainly not to be taken seriously.) And, even more intriguing, the lady experienced all this on the other side literally AS her body was still flying through the air DURING the crash! This brings to mind reports by other NDE experiencers who state that our physical/earthly life is so very miniscule. Eg, Dennis Bullock (from my previous post) said our life here is like the very tip of the nail of our little finger. Another is Daniel Berdichevsky (see video below) who said that our life here is like barely tapping our little toe into the water. Here are his poignant words: "At that moment when I started facing the golden light, it felt like this existence on earth was an absolute minuscule, tiny, irrelevant little speck...like you go in and you just like tap your toe in the water. That's it, and it's done. You don't jump in the ocean and swim around for days and days - no, this life felt like you just take your tiny little toe there, you dip it, and it's done <snapping fingers> like that, blink of an eye. Didn't care, whatever that was. Felt like I was on earth eons ago. Totally not relevant anymore. I felt this love from the light. I felt this love, and I knew everything I'd ever done and everything I ever will do for all of eternity I will be loved and cherished exactly the same way. It will not deviate one bit. It will not change one bit. It will stay the same now and forever. Doesn't matter what circumstances I'm in or what I've done. That love was so powerful, it was a waterfall of endless love." So it'd be helpful to consider statements like these anytime we begin to take life too seriously or feel we're getting bogged down too deeply in the drama of earthly/material life. And then there's the research/books by the late Dr. Michael Newton who hypnotically regressed thousands of people to recall their life between lives, showing clearly the creative endeavors we engage in - like manipulating energy to create minerals & other material objects, simple to complex life-forms, and even whole planets, stars, and galaxies on the other side that we can then experience for ourselves through a physical body/vehicle. We essentially get to experience the very things we create. Daniel Berdichevsky's NDE I'm flattered, but I don't think I have much to say that hasn't already been said, proposed, or written by somebody out there. I'm not sophisticated enough, and my mind is too simple to captivate the intrigue of avid readers & seekers of profound, nuanced wisdom. (After all, my favorite movie is Airplane! & my next favs are Mel Brooks movies.) I'm more of a 'solutions' person than a philosopher anyhow - so my bluntness may turn many off. Still, we can feel honored that just by posting our thoughts on this forum, we're putting that energy into the collective. Just as a falling leaf, nothing we think, feel, or do goes unnoticed by the universe, or infinite Creation (Oneness) for that matter - and that's where it really matters. However, I can tell that you have the makings of a great, prolific writer. Your mind seems filled with such worldly knowledge of an obscure nature most have never been exposed to. You should consider compiling all this uncommon knowledge into a themed book. It's sure to sell.
You are about as superficial as usual and wrong as usual. A lot of the reasons for suicide can be amoral (not a moral choice). Depression: amoral Psychosis: amoral Impulse: amoral Cry for help: amoral Accidental: amoral Philosophical desire: moral Honor: moral
"You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, or male or female slave, or ox, or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor" And yet we did. Are you okay with that? We outlawed slavery.
I think quality of life is an important factor in a discussion of suicide. If a person cannot take care of himself, if he no longer has any dignity, if life is nothing but pain and a failed body, it is OK in my book.
It's all okay if one makes it okay. It's not okay if one makes it not okay - whatever the physical/earthly consequences may be. We are the gods that give life meaning, and can decide what's okay or not okay. This doesn't mean every society/community needs to embrace & tolerate those who seek to harm others. It's up to the members of that society/community how they wish to operate - to be warlike, to be peaceful, or something in between. Either way, the peaceful path is the sustainable path and will outlast any warrior society, because (1) humans are a highly social species that benefits most when they cooperate, and (2) the Oneness of All (aka 'love') is a great unifying & most powerful force, which, for those who wish to resist it, requires a persistence of effort (which is why this path brings constant struggle & difficulty to maintain). Either way, all paths lead in meandering ways towards Oneness - our true nature. Still, we can play different roles like actors in a movie. And that includes the evil villain that some are here to play. I've heard from a few NDE experiencers that each of us has played every role in our many life-times - from the murderer to the saint, from being dirt poor to being wealthy, from being an imbecile to being brilliant, from being unknown to being famous, from being handicapped to being a super athlete, from being male to being female, and so on. And, we can play different roles within the same life-time, depending on our goals & how we reflect on our experiences. As God, wouldn't you want to experience it all just to see what it's like?
I agree with you but now only for the sake of debate I will question your question and not because I am a smart ass but because I want to contribute to your discussion. Your question is necessarily (unintentionally of course) defective because suicide is a collective term for many different types of that act that are not based on the same reasons and so until we know the reasons or intent behind the decision to engage in suicide its premature to comment on the morality of that intent behind the decision. Your question uses the term "suicide" but then you in fact refer to euthanasia a type of suicide to justify your conclusion. Today in this debate we use the terms interchangeably to question both suicide and euthanasia and I would argue that can cause confusion as to what act we refer to we are then questioning in references to whether it was moral or immoral. In fact suicide is the act of taking one's own life intentionally. So that is a term that without specifying what the intent was, defies any debate as to its morality. Morality of taking one's own life depends on one;s reasons or intentions. For example, a person who is a terrorist and blows themselves up is engaged in a suicidal act but it does not have the same moral elements as someone who intentionally kills themself placing their body on a grenade that then blows up and kills them to smother the blast and save their fellow soldiers. Euthanasia which could be self inflicted (therefore suicide) could also be inflicted by someone other than the person to die ( and so in law could lead to a conviction of homicide, manslaughter or some other criminal conviction based on the moral assumption it is immoral). In the case of suicide or euthanasia the decision to end a person's life to relieve them from incurable diseases or suffering triggers another set of moral considerations. So this is why I would agree with your statement if it was done say because a person had an incurable disease with unbearable pain unable to be contained. However I am sure since you sound like a caring human would denounce terrorism and self detonating terrorists. So for all those comments, and being generally on this forum a pain in the ass and retired law professor/lawyer with no life, I have nothing better to do than add to your question. Lol I personally wrote a Master's degree on euthanasia laws in Canada. I argued we use the same laws now being used in Oregon, Washington, Vermont. There are European countries that have much more liberal euthanasia laws than Canada or certain US states. I believe at this point the Netherlands is the most lenient state in regards to euthanasia in that you do not have to be terminally ill to get authority to do it. Myself I like the approach in the states I mentioned because they have a council of medical specialists who must ascertain the patient can not live without pain, has an incurable illness and has full mental capacity. I very much appreciate how discussions on euthanasia frighten the disabled who fear it will be used incorrectly to kill them to save on medical costs. I also appreciate some worry it could be used by a greedy relative or acquaintance to kill someone to get inheritance. The systems I refer to screen that all out. So sorry the only answer to your question is it can't be properly answered because without knowing the intent behind the decision to engage in suicide, any moral discussion as to the basis of that intent is premature.
If you are a suicide bomber and you blow yourself up by piloting a plane into a huge building in New York....... the penalty for committing suicide may be far, far, far, far, far, far, far beyond what you would be willing to want to pay........ IF you had been taught the full implications of your CHOICE!!!!!!! What Dr. P. M. H. Atwater saw at the time of the September 11, 2001 terrorist attack on New York City is impossible for her to have simply made up out of her own imagination....... {unless she were some sort of Dr. Albert Einstein type of intellect}....... But the more probable explanaiton for what she was shown is that her three previous near death experiences prepared her to be able to pray and move around in the higher invisible dimensions of space and time! .. .... "Three time near death experiencer sees the souls of the September 11, 2001 victims...." http://www.politicalforum.com/index...ember-11-2001-victims.612139/#post-1074354117 SHALOM @Death ... what do you personally think of what three time near death experiencer Dr. P. M. H. Atwater was shown about the events going on in the higher invisible dimensions of space and time just after the September 11, 2001 terrorist attack on the New York twin towers? And on that note.. I would like to introduce you to near death experiencer Robert Mendelson...... God's Peace Plan for the Holy Land in English, Hebrew and Arabic?
