Is time real?

Discussion in 'Science' started by Noserose, Sep 26, 2017.

  1. politicalcenter

    politicalcenter Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2011
    Messages:
    11,131
    Likes Received:
    6,818
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    It could give your enemy more time to prepare. You could find your family line went extinct. I don't like myself. I don't trust the fuzzy math involved in black holes. I wouldn't pass the physical.
     
  2. politicalcenter

    politicalcenter Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2011
    Messages:
    11,131
    Likes Received:
    6,818
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Does not increasing involve time passing? Can't see one without the other.
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2017
  3. Max Rockatansky

    Max Rockatansky Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2013
    Messages:
    25,394
    Likes Received:
    8,172
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Animals are also attuned to seasons, feeding time, etc.

    Yes, humans divide up time with sundials, watches and calendars, but time exists whether we notice it or not. The Earth will still spin and will still orbit the Sun. In time, the Andromeda galaxy with merge with the Milky Way regardless if anyone or anything is attuned to time passing or not.

    [​IMG]
     
    politicalcenter likes this.
  4. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 15, 2008
    Messages:
    28,370
    Likes Received:
    9,297
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Thus you have proven that "Time" is a completely human centric concept and creation. It is not only human centric it is individualized. A "Day" on Jupiter will be about ten hours long for a Europian watching from his Ice tower and a winter month in Siberia will seem much longer without a watch to track the manmade passage. Would time exist if we had no way to measure it?
     
  5. politicalcenter

    politicalcenter Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2011
    Messages:
    11,131
    Likes Received:
    6,818
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Of course, we would still age and seasons would come and go. The earth and many things on and about it existed before we had a way to measure them.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2017
    DennisTate likes this.
  6. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2008
    Messages:
    19,980
    Likes Received:
    1,177
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Yes because that's what we know in our locality...it's the way we plan and organize and communicate. In this regard time is real. And I suspect if we were communicating with Alpha Centauri we would need to make a time reference conversion.

    I wonder if there are clocks aboard the Voyager's that can be compared to time on Earth?

    If something is moving then there must be time...
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2017
  7. primate

    primate Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2014
    Messages:
    1,205
    Likes Received:
    370
    Trophy Points:
    83
    One can communicate with GPS standing here on earth in the same gravity well as others and experience the difference in time nearly instantaneously with that satellite and yourself. So the minute there is different than your minute although you are utilizing information immediately or as close to that as is possible. If you are using the same information are you intertwined and/or coupled in any quantum fashion?

    Time is very likely to be quantum and obviously moving forward when left to its own nature.
     
  8. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2016
    Messages:
    27,942
    Likes Received:
    19,980
    Trophy Points:
    113
    But clocks don't depend on human perceptions.
     
    primate likes this.
  9. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2016
    Messages:
    27,942
    Likes Received:
    19,980
    Trophy Points:
    113
    We associate the passing of time with increasing entropy. But that doesn't make it fundamentally real.
     
  10. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2016
    Messages:
    27,942
    Likes Received:
    19,980
    Trophy Points:
    113
    What does it mean for something to be real?
     
  11. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2016
    Messages:
    27,942
    Likes Received:
    19,980
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Are colors real?
     
  12. primate

    primate Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2014
    Messages:
    1,205
    Likes Received:
    370
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Our perception of reality is based in our brain. Can you describe quantum packets of time assuming that is actually time in a way that does not involve the human perspective? Time must occur in some fashion even if we can't describe it well. We can 'see' the past and peer into the future even if only with our imagination. While I describe this in human perspectives nevertheless it exists just as I do.
     
  13. Moi621

    Moi621 Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2013
    Messages:
    19,306
    Likes Received:
    7,613
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Time!?
    An invention of PeopleKind
    No People.
    No Time.

    I have a watch on my left wrist that proves there is time.
     
  14. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2016
    Messages:
    27,942
    Likes Received:
    19,980
    Trophy Points:
    113
    If time wasn't relative, it would be easier to dismiss. But the fact that our measurements of time can be altered by the state of the system, means that something real has to be changing.

    I was reading earlier that the notion of quantized time is on the outs now. But you never know. There are many schools of thought in physics when it comes to the deep questions. When you get an answer on something like this, it may only represent a small fraction of the views that exist. It took me awhile to realize that physicists rarely provide an overview of the many schools of thought that may exist on a given subject. They are not democratic! :D They talk about their own school of thought as if it were the only one.

    Some of the most brilliant minds in history considered some of the other most brilliant minds in history to be crackpots. :)

    Fermi was asked what characteristics physics Nobelists had in common. He answered, "I cannot think of a single one, not even intelligence."
    Enrico Fermi, Italian physicist, 1901-1954 (Phys Today, Oct 1994, pg70)
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2017
  15. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 15, 2008
    Messages:
    28,370
    Likes Received:
    9,297
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    ...Uh...humans not only made clocks, we are the only ones who can read, use, or understand them. Clocks most certainly "Depend" on human perception.
     
  16. One Mind

    One Mind Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2014
    Messages:
    20,296
    Likes Received:
    7,744
    Trophy Points:
    113
    To me there is this concept called space time, which physics uses and then there is another kind of time which I can only call psychological time. There may or may not be a real relationship, in reality. As some ancient philosopher once said, "I know what time is, until you ask me what time is." I feel that psychological time is a creation of consciousness itself. It arises with our kind of self awareness and the ability to separate ourselves from the rest of the universe. I do not think other animals separate themselves, they are just a part of the Whole and unaware of any separation.
     
  17. Iriemon

    Iriemon Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 12, 2009
    Messages:
    82,348
    Likes Received:
    2,657
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I'm not a physicist, but I don't believe Einstein was arguing there was no time. He argued that time was real, but relative.
     
  18. Capt Nice

    Capt Nice Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2017
    Messages:
    9,998
    Likes Received:
    10,217
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    It's a measure of convenience. When would you schedule an appointment? When would a store open? When would I be early or late for work?
     
  19. Greataxe

    Greataxe Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2011
    Messages:
    9,400
    Likes Received:
    1,348
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Time is everything, it is all we have.
     
  20. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2016
    Messages:
    27,942
    Likes Received:
    19,980
    Trophy Points:
    113
    No, they don't. They operate on natural processes that are independent of human perception.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2017
  21. One Mind

    One Mind Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2014
    Messages:
    20,296
    Likes Received:
    7,744
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I think he means it took perception to make them? And perception to read them. Clocks are a creation of human consciousness. And they do that exist without that. I think that may have been his point. We have a sense of time. This was a creation to measure it more accurately.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2017
  22. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2016
    Messages:
    27,942
    Likes Received:
    19,980
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Clocks exist independent of human perception. We merely assign units of measure. A pendulum swings whether or not anyone is watching. Time is passing.
     
  23. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 15, 2008
    Messages:
    28,370
    Likes Received:
    9,297
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Have A Nice Day:eyepopping:
     
  24. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2016
    Messages:
    27,942
    Likes Received:
    19,980
    Trophy Points:
    113
    LOL! Talk about a closed mind! You do know I'm a physicist, right? I've had more than a passing interest in this subject.

    How about you? Studied a lot of physics did you?
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2017
  25. ARDY

    ARDY Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2015
    Messages:
    8,386
    Likes Received:
    1,704
    Trophy Points:
    113
    As understand it, scientists now feel the term causality is more precise than the more common term “time”. The reason for the Change is that We think of time as being absolute in a way that it is not.

    For example, consider a lightning strike. We will see it, then hear it later. So in some sense the event seems to happen at different times.

    This problem is overcome through the concept of causality. There is some event that cause a flash of light and a sound. These are independent events that are causually related to the initial lightning strike, but the light and sound are independent causal events with their own physics that are independent of the initial causal event (the lightning strike). So, for example, we see a star shining in in what is apparently present time... and yet the actual causal event happened long ago. So time refers to our relativistic perception of causal events. Which in most circumstances is adequate for living our lives, but is subjective
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2017

Share This Page