Isnt this a really odd situation

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by logical1, Aug 20, 2019.

  1. Heartburn

    Heartburn Well-Known Member

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    That wasn't what he said.
     
  2. Concord

    Concord Well-Known Member

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    Who, as I stated, is every American who makes money. That isn't just "white people." In fact, it's most of every people.

    For the same reason the Germans have called their financial amends to Jews and Israel "reparations." Our nation has committed some of the worst oppression on the planet against a specific community for 400 years. Our nation has a lot to atone for.

    Now, atonement isn't really what I'm after here. I think some people find it useful to cast it that way, and I can see some benefits.

    For me it's about economically uplifting marginalized communities.

    Alright, cool. You need to start looking at actual reparations proposals, because a lot (most?) of them are in fact universal programs that happen to focus on issues which disproportionately affect African-American communities.

    If you think that just giving cash money to black individuals is a bad idea, I agree, and so do most people I hear talk about the issue.
     
  3. Concord

    Concord Well-Known Member

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    Yes, it clearly is:

    "Yet these same democrats are trying to hold white people responsible for the sins of their forefathers 155 years ago."

    That's a direct quote. You just needed to scroll up a little bit.
     
  4. APACHERAT

    APACHERAT Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The OP is saying (correct me if I'm wrong) that if the undocumented Democrats DACA illegal aliens should not be held responsible for the crimes that their illegal alien parents committed by violating America's sovereignty then white Americans should not be held responsible that a small minority of whites owned slaves.

    What about the 3,700 blacks who owned slaves ?
     
  5. Concord

    Concord Well-Known Member

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    Oh, so the OP is talking about Gee Lowery.
     
  6. Crawdadr

    Crawdadr Well-Known Member

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    Well that is the rub, which program would be chosen? I am not entirely against the idea of reparations but if it does end up being a cash transaction of some sort to African Americans only then I want it to be the end of the discussion as it pertains to policy. At that point race means nothing as it pertains to policy. American cut the check now get on with your lives. Of course as many people know, money rarely solves real cultural problems.
     
  7. Concord

    Concord Well-Known Member

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  8. Daniel Light

    Daniel Light Well-Known Member

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    Not rocket science, dude.

    I'm against reparations, but I do understand the difference in the cases.

    People who argue FOR reparations are naming the US Government as the responsible party - not each and every individual American.
    The Government of the US is THE SAME LEGAL ENTITY THAT IT WAS IN 1790.

    In the case of the DACA kids, you are trying to claim that a criminal act by an individual can be carried over to other individuals by fact of a familial relationship. Not the same entity. Different. Understand.

    Try and think things through before you post.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2019
  9. Concord

    Concord Well-Known Member

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    Who knows? All we can do is fight for or against certain program proposals as they start to look more likely to come to pass. But almost none of them are terrible. Even if flat-out cash transfers to black individuals are what people go with (it won't be,) I'll be one of those people saying: "Alright, great. There's a lot more that needs to be done in regard not only to African-American communities, but also in regard to rural white communities."

    And I'll cop to the fact that I'm more concerned about rural white communities than, say, Baltimore. And I'm sure that people from Baltimore have the same attitude towards me. I think that's natural and fine, and in the end rural whites and urban blacks have the same short-term interests: Break the power of the monied elite to help communities that have lived in poverty for centuries, whether they're West Virginian whites for Mississippi-river blacks.
     
  10. Heartburn

    Heartburn Well-Known Member

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    You're cherry picking. The OP was about DACA children not being held responsible for the sins of their fathers which was illegally coming to this country. The post you are referring to was addressed to that because in both cases it is the sins of the fathers that is in question.
     
  11. APACHERAT

    APACHERAT Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The West-African Pattern of Islamization
    From an early period, political developments in West Africa were continually shaped by the trading network which depended on the trans-Saharan routes being extended to new sources of gold to the south. These trading networks developed among local African groups, mostly of Soninke origin (related to the rulers of Ghana), such as the Mande (Wangara/Dyula) whose area of operation was over a wide area, extending from as far west as Senegal to northern Nigeria in the east. This trade network, which led to exposure to Islam as a result of trading transactions with North Africans, was closely associated with the diffusion of Islamic studies, including mysticism in the later centuries, and enabled Islam to penetrate peacefully beyond the Sahel into the savanna area. Initially Islam was the religion of the African traders, then the rulers (who sought Muslim prayers if those of local priests failed), and finally (due to the efforts of Muslim scholars in later centuries) commoners among various African communities.

    The cross-cultural trade in many parts of Africa, apart from reinforcing cultural self-identity and nurturing religious commitment, fostered a pluralist structure in which commerce, Islam, and the indigenous system supported the urban network. In this way a balance was established between local ritual prescriptions and those of universal Islam....
    https://www.encyclopedia.com/enviro...ripts-and-maps/islam-islam-sub-saharan-africa

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  12. Surfer Joe

    Surfer Joe Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    LMAO...Yeah, they forced all those plantation owners sitting on the veranda sipping mint juleps to buy slaves and then rape them for sport, murder them or work them to death.
    G'wan tell us another one.
     
  13. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    North Africa mostly.. It was complicated.

    FSI | SPICE - The Spread of Islam in West Africa ...
    https://spice.fsi.stanford.edu/docs/the_spread_of_islam_in_west_africa_containment...
    While the presence of Islam in West Africa dates back to eighth century, the spread of the faith in regions that are now the modern states of Senegal, Gambia, Guinea, Burkina Faso, Niger, Mali and Nigeria, was in actuality, a gradual and complex process.
     
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  14. Concord

    Concord Well-Known Member

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    Cherry picking? That's in the OP.
     
  15. Concord

    Concord Well-Known Member

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    North Africa more than West Africa or East Africa, sure, but Islamic elites were dominant in both of the latter for centuries, with Muslims still being very prevalent in both regions (especially West Africa.)
     
  16. Surfer Joe

    Surfer Joe Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Lol...Why would we want to explain one of your disingenuous jibes?
     
  17. flewism

    flewism Well-Known Member

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    But in your opinion those same "other individuals" can gain benefit from the criminal acts of adult family members.
     
  18. Heartburn

    Heartburn Well-Known Member

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    Yes it is but you did not quote the OP. You completely dropped the part alluding to sins of the fathers. Maybe you should scroll back and check your own quote.
     
  19. Concord

    Concord Well-Known Member

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    I'm asking for clarification of a certain passage, so I quoted the passage.

    You're being weird.
     
  20. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    Arabs took slaves in Sudan and Somalia.

    [​IMG]
     
  21. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    Who bought slaves from the Arabs?
     
  22. Moonglow

    Moonglow Well-Known Member

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    What sin did yer forefathers commit.?
     
  23. Smartmouthwoman

    Smartmouthwoman Bless your heart Past Donor

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    So let me get this straight... reparations should be paid by taxpayers? Including black taxpayers?

    Doesn't seem too fair. Probably a good thing it will NEVER happen. Ever.
     
  24. Concord

    Concord Well-Known Member

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    Oh I have no idea. I know very little about how the trans-Atlantic slave trade got off the ground. I'll give you a completely unfounded guess based on ancillary knowledge: Arabs had little or nothing to do with slave trading in West Africa, though Muslims probably played a role. I'd venture another guess: Slavery as practiced in West Africa was very different from slavery as practiced in the Americas.
     
  25. Concord

    Concord Well-Known Member

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    ...obviously...

    You and I have very different predictions for the future politics of our country.
     

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