Israel comes under heavy rocket fire from Gaza, suspected terror infiltration

Millions of Palestinian (and not only) refugees will soon make their way to Europe. The vast majority of them will end up in Germany. (banally because of the higher standard of living (and consequently benefits) and banally because of the overpopulation of political idiots in power).
Virtually all of these refugees will hate Europeans. This will lead to a massive increase in crime of all kinds (from robbery and rape to radical terrorism).
And it's inevitable.
However, the Europeans themselves wanted it. They voted for modern politicians, they promoted anti-human values in the form of support for LGBT and other "green" lunatics (by the way, I have never heard any "green" imbecile object to sending depleted uranium shells or cluster munitions to Ukrainian fascists), they supported all fascists from Ukraine to Israel. So - the Europeans will get what they want.

 

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11MIN AGO

Defense minister says Gaza incursion coming ‘soon’ as intense rocket fire continues
TOI STAFF

Security cabinet meets *
IDF Southern Command chief says ground operation will be ‘long and intense’ *
Rocket barrages hit Israel from both Gaza and Lebanon *
IDF threatens Hezbollah

 

So it's a matter of degree? If my only objective that I would fight for is the total breakdown of the Israeli security state, I should just sit back and hope that doesn't happen?

The Israelis have a duty to defend their state that is higher than any duty to any single group of people. Until those who claim to support innocent Palestinians understand the overriding Israeli motive here, people like me who want to help innocents won't be able to work with them.

Those who want to help innocents need to understand the reality of what's likely to happen militarily here. People like Tlaib need to accept that there will be no ceasefire until the destruction of Hamas capability (and any organization that may emerge to replace it after it is destroyed). Every single rocket and machine gun is going to be removed from every single building in the city. The entire tunnel system will be obliterated.

This is the reality. If we can convince the Israelis that leveling the city is not the solution (at least before the civilians are funneled out, even the stubborn ones), it will take at least months. How do we save people in this reality?

I would tell Bibi, Gaza isn't Sodom. We are Lot, and we are telling you that there are more than 10, more than 100, and even more than 1000. I would ask you to make the covenant that God would have made, if Lot were as successful as we are.

 

1 hr 28 min ago
Kidnapped 80-year-old Israeli-American and her teenage granddaughter found dead, family says

From CNN’s Christina Zdanowicz

Carmela Dan Courtesy Jason Greenberg

An 80-year-old Israeli-American and her 13-year-old granddaughter, who were both kidnapped by Hamas militants from their kibbutz on October 7, have been found dead, the family told CNN on Thursday.

The Israel Defense Forces confirmed the deaths of Carmela Dan and Noya Dan to family on Wednesday, according to Jason Greenberg, a relative who lives in Massachusetts.

“Their bodies are being returned to their families for burial at this moment,” he said.

Carmela Dan had Israeli, US and French citizenship. Her granddaughter, Noya Dan, was an Israeli citizen.


Noya Dan courtesy Jason Greenberg

The spokesperson of another family member also posted about the deaths on Facebook.

The news comes more than a week after five members of the family were kidnapped from their home in Nir Oz, a kibbutz in southern Israel just a few miles from the border with Gaza. Greenberg previously told CNN there had been a flurry of text messages from the family members saying they were hiding in a safe room and had heard gunfire and smelled smoke.​

... live updates: https://edition.cnn.com/middleeast/...s-10-19-23/h_7730bc4715223b11ddc63d0221c01b12

 

it's hardly the breakdown of the Israelis security state given that net and Yahoo willfully overlooked the state of affairs and placed women and children on the frontline. Looks more like an open invitation. Doncha think

 

Doesn't that make you wonder why they are in a kibbutz a few miles from the border with Gaza?

Allow me to explain. Kibbutzes are not a harmless civilian community. They are specifically set up in key locations preferably nearest to Palestinian land or actually on top of recently confiscated Palestinian land. As in this case, they are almost always set up on stolen Palestinian land. Now I am not happy about the child dying. Just as I was not happy when some civilian Russians died when the Crimean Bridge was hit. Although I was quite happy the bridge was hit. However, I do not know what happened in this case and since the IDF has an itchy trigger finger and doesn't seem to care about collateral damage, I don't even know if Hamas killed them. The IDF is certainly not taking the care Ukraine is taking to not cause civilian casualties.

 

I don't trust the Israeli government any more than any government since Covid. Every one of them allowed their people to be poisoned without any attempt to remedy the situation that caused our poisoning. So no, I do not like the circumstances that allowed this tragedy to occur.

So your position is that if a people are oppressed, any act of barbarism is to be praised, or excused?

If so, at what level of oppression against me justifies snatching kids?

One can make the case that the Cuban people have been oppressed by the US blockade. If Cubans starting cutting our children's heads off, we shouldn't condemn them, even if they were funded, armed, and organized by a multinational coalition of US enemies? Or has the oppression not yet reached atrocity justification level? I'll just please ask for you to let me know when that threshold has been reached so I can start looking out for Cubans.

 

Hamas intentionally butchered many civilians on the 7th, lied about the hospital and probably the number of casualties, regularly puts civilians in harms way in Gaza by using them as human shields, and regularly launches rockets at Israeli civilians.

Unless evidence comes to light that shows the IDF did something wrong and is trying to cover it up, I'm not going to entertain such notions. And either way, these people would not have been in such a position to begin with had it not been for Hamas kidnapping them in the first place. Every civilian death due to use of weapons in Israel and Gaza is ultimately their fault because they started this fight and are continuing it, and I feel likewise about civilian wartime deaths in Ukraine and Russia's role in there.

 

People have not been poisoned by the vaccines. You are spouting misinformation that this forum claims it doesn't allow.

 

Treat ppl as you wish to be treated

 

Iran is behind attack on Israel and Hamas must be ‘eliminated’ | John Bolton

 

We aren't stupid. We got poisoned by something from a lab, and we can clearly see that NONE of our governments acted in our interest to find out the who, why, and how. And I exclaimed ever since, their deception on this has the potential to unravel everything.

 

That answer leaves me in the dark. I need to know the exact point of my oppression that I can start including tactics of mutilating children in my resistance strategy, and not be considered morally condemnable.

 

Paranoid rantings. At worst, it accidentally leaked from a lab. Why some people have to be so paranoid as to assume a pandemic was intentional is beyond me. This was no more intentional than the Spanish Flu, the Black Death or countless other epidemics of the past. Most of the life on this planet is microbial, and a good portion of it relies on plants or animals to survive, and all such life evolves rapidly because of how quickly it replicates.

 

Mutilating children is a point your ppl passed a long time ago, pull the other one

 

Because Israel told us so? Along with beheaded babies and babies burnt alive?

By the way - not too many civilians in Israel.

Even so, Israel has been butchering civilians for years. They're butchering civilians now. Do you not care because you're bigoted? Or because you're ignorant?

How many instances would it take? 1 , 10, 1,000, or 2,000,000? Give me a number before I waste time finding out there is no number which would satiate your bloodlust.

 

Are Palestinians the only oppressed people authorized to commit atrocities vs their accused oppressor, or are there similar oppressed/oppressor relationships in the world, in which perhaps citizens of the "oppressor" country should be put on notice that they are subject to atrocities?

Should Russian citizens around the world deserve to have random barbarous attacks conducted on their children justified due to their identification with the oppression of Ukrainians?

Should Americans at a music festival in the US just accept that they are fair game for atrocities due to their defense of an oppressor?

Is this really the position I see developing among some of my fellow, and world citizens?

 

I do, I just also know that Biden, Bibi, and Zelensky are full of ****, and I can compartmentalize my belief that, in Ukraine, Russia has legitimate security interests, my belief that in Israel the US has legitimate security interests, AND my suspicion that Biden, Zelensky, and Bibi are playing a game to keep power by provoking our enemies to the point that even their critics are forced to throw their lot in with them in order to defend their nations.

 

Putin has been in office for over 20 years, Zelensky for just 4, Biden for less than 3. There is no comparing an authoritarian dictator to either of the latter two, nor Russia's post-Soviet system to ours, Ukraine's or Israel's.

As for legitimate security concerns, no, Russia as a nation has no concerns in Ukraine that warrant what it is doing there. I know you don't want to accept this, but Russia is under no threat from NATO and its leaders know this very well. They did not invade Ukraine out of any concerns over NATO. These are lies they tell to cover up the real reasons for invading, occupying and annexing Ukrainian territory. Otherwise, they might have tried invading Finland before it could join NATO. That they did not shows their raging hypocrisy and dishonesty.

 

Israel latest: Israel’s invasion plan explained | Michael Clarke

 

The missiles that we would have placed there, even if Russia didn't invade, and that we have placed elsewhere in Eastern Europe, are an unacceptable security situation for Russia. If I were a Russian, I'd be criticizing Putin for allowing it to happen. Such a simple truth that if observed, could have saved hundreds of thousands (and maybe millions in the end) of lives. The principles like soveriegnty and democracy, although noble, are being overridden by the primitive instinct of self defense.

I'm afraid this is going to repeat in Israel, people are going to ignore the driving dynamic of the situation, rooted in self defense, except this time, they are blinded by anti-colonialist and oppression narratives, that once again, have merit, but are not what we should be focusing on to avoid imminent catastrophe.

 

What if the overriding Israeli motive here is the continuation of a brutal, illegal occupation of Palestine?

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2017/06/israel-occupation-50-years-of-dispossession/

"For the last 50 years, Israel has been forcing thousands of Palestinians off their land, occupying and illegally using it to create settlements that exclusively house Jewish Israeli settlers."

Does Israel have the right to defend a racist, apartheid state?

 

How many dead Israelis are you willing to accept in order to accomplish the goals you mentioned? Destroying Hamas will not end Palestinian opposition to Israel's illegal occupation. A ground invasion (occupation?) of northern Gaza will result in thousands of Israeli deaths as Hezbollah, Iran, Syria, and Turkey become actively involved in ending the racist, apartheid Jewish State's occupation of Palestine.

 

Well. It's kind of odd, to say the least, to throw a massive party at the doorstep of people who have threatened to do all kinds of things due to utterly and utterly violent racist oppression they are enduring for decades and decades on end with no end in sight as well. Not saying I support the massacre and kidnapping. But than again it was rather dumb to be there. We can go to Iran and send up a press agency and go jawdrop that the it'll end in a showtrial and jail. You can say all you want that it shouldn't be happening, but it's odd that you tried to do that there and rather dumb.

 

I always find it really really odd that people post a picture of them people to make some kind of emotional connection..... as in a way to raise support for their cause.
while the amount of pictures of innocent people from Gaza who are getting killed is 4 times greater. Where is your support when you see them pictures, ey?

Do note. That Israeli-American and her granddaughter had a FAR nicer life than those people who are deliberately impoverished all their lives by Israel in that hell hole. You can see it in their faces and the kind of backdrop of the picture.