It's obvious Abortion is wrong

If reincarnation is true, it suggests (to me):

Elective abortion (like spontaneous abortion and miscarriage) just means no soul becomes bound to the life that this particular body would have lived. The soul that might have chosen this life will go on to chose a different life.

A woman who has the choice of an abortion and then decides (of her own free will) to have the child will have much more positive feelings toward childbirth and toward her child. She will feel empowered (not victimized). Her soul would be more likely to have a positive outlook toward childbirth in subsequent lives.

 

How many times have you been pregnant? Pregnancy is way more harmful than legal first trimester abortion. The vast majority of women who abort have no lasting negative effects.

And yes, at least one person here has said or insinuated that pregnancy is not harmful to the woman.

 

Utter hooey.

"""if perhaps ninety percent or more of all men and women in North America ... if hypnotized and regressed in time......would see lives as both men and women in what they subconsciously perceive as past lives then...."

If , IF , IF, ...."ifs " don't count for anything...

 

Yup, the one you quoted certainly did....the poster who's asking """Who ever claimed that pregnancy doesn't hurt woman?""

Poster thinks pregnancy consists of ""going into labor"" (first!!!), then "morning sickness and what have you"""

UNbelievable .....

 

I've never been pregnant but my mom was multiple times along with many pro life women. That argument is designed to shut guys like me down. Also I would like to see stats showing that the vast majority didn't had lasting affects.

 

No I don't think that. I said the first thing that came up and going into labor was it. Really you think you'd had the understanding to get that. Guess not.

 

I didn't say its always temporary however I did said that its a inconvience and for the most part it is. It's certainly not something to murder a human being for.

I've covered this before. Non of those are justified for an abortion unless its life threatening. Interesting to note is the benefits a woman gets while pregnant. Stronger hair is one of them.



.

Science says otherwise.

http://www.catholiceducation.org/en.../how-abortion-hurts-women-the-hard-proof.html

Mind you I'm not catholic but here's another source.

http://www.mccl.org/abortion-hurts-women-too

It's even more disrespect to tell your mom that her mom should've murdered her because of what she had her mother go through.

Then only abort when those affect are in effect to use your logic. Another thing. If its truly the woman's body or baby then why when she decides to keep it if the father is absent then he is forced by law to support. If we want to be fair the woman should provide for her own.

 

I thought to post some of the benefits of pregnancy.

http://www.parents.com/pregnancy/my-body/changing/benefits-of-pregnancy/

 

As I said it depends on what definition is used for "rights", you have yet to state what definition you use.

 

Only in your illogical world.

100% relevant. I notice you don't actually say what your position is and how you came to that position . .you dance around that .. so let us all know, what is your position and how did your arrive at that position?

Nope it is not, your assertion is an all or nothing fallacy or if you prefer a false dilemma fallacy, which is a set of options presented as if they are mutually exclusive or as if they're the only possible options, when in fact they are not. It is used to give the impression that if one rejects another's argument, he must necessarily embrace an absurd or unappealing stance.

 

and they are wrong (as usual)

Really!!! and where exactly is this written down, or even acknowledged as reality.

Yep, without her consent.

Do you actually know anything about reproductive biology .. the introduction of sperm into the vagina is NOT the seed being planted. The fertilization of the ova by sperm is NOT the seed being planted . .the 'seed' being planted is ONLY when the fertilized successfully implants into the uterine wall, and as pro-lifers say that the fertilized ovum is a person it CANNOT implant without the females consent, if she does not consent then the ovum is injuring her.

What a complete and utter load of BS

If a pregnancy is "completely natural" then the unborn cannot be persons, as soon as you assign personhood to the unborn they are no longer natural .. they cannot be both. Please actually do some research before making such sill contradictory statements.

Yes, just as the person who injuries you without consent would quite possibly die if you assert your rights to defend yourself against non-consented injuries.

Again complete and utter BS, look up what harm means - "Physical injury, especially that which is deliberately inflicted:" BTW before you comment back, especially does not mean only.

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With her consent .. seems some people don't know the difference between giving consent and not giving consent.

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Rubbish.

Consenting to sexual intercourse is NOT consenting to pregnancy

 

and they do have that right.

 

You haven't shown anything that proves pregnancy doesn't harm women and abortion does.
Please don't try those Finland studies that NEVER mentioned the woman's mental health BEFORE she had an abortion, they don't count for crap.

It's hilarious that you try to compare 9 months of pregnancy with abortion , a medical procedure lasting a few minutes that's exactly the same as a natural miscarriage only under the control of a doctor.

No, you will never be pregnant, know absolutely zero about pregnancy (OH it give the woman strong hair! OMGAWD! How asinine!) but think you should be able to force women to give birth.

Why? So you can whine about how the poor little man has to support his kid???? You'd think if you were so worried about the Poor Little Men that you'd favor abortion....

 

Excellent summation of those disingenuous ruses.

 

Note that none of the anti-rightists have ever argued that the man is automatically consenting to becoming a father every time they engage in intercourse. They see fatherhood as something imposed upon them by women but women are "consenting" to pregnancy just because they have consented to sex. Be curious to see how the anti-rightists deal with their own automatic "consent to fatherhood".

 

Yes you have been through this before, you are as wrong now as you were then.

 

Denies science and biological facts :



Normal, frequent or expectable temporary side effects of pregnancy:
•exhaustion (weariness common from first weeks)
•altered appetite and senses of taste and smell
•nausea and vomiting (50% of women, first trimester)
•heartburn and indigestion
•constipation
•weight gain
•dizziness and light-headedness
•bloating, swelling, fluid retention
•hemmorhoids
•abdominal cramps
•yeast infections
•congested, bloody nose
•acne and mild skin disorders
•skin discoloration (chloasma, face and abdomen)
•mild to severe backache and strain
•increased headaches
•difficulty sleeping, and discomfort while sleeping
•increased urination and incontinence
•bleeding gums
•pica
•breast pain and discharge
•swelling of joints, leg cramps, joint pain
•difficulty sitting, standing in later pregnancy
•inability to take regular medications
•shortness of breath
•higher blood pressure
•hair loss or increased facial/body hair
•tendency to anemia
•curtailment of ability to participate in some sports and activities
•infection including from serious and potentially fatal disease
(pregnant women are immune suppressed compared with non-pregnant women, and are more susceptible to fungal and certain other diseases)
•extreme pain on delivery
•hormonal mood changes, including normal post-partum depression
•continued post-partum exhaustion and recovery period (exacerbated if a c-section -- major surgery -- is required, sometimes taking up to a full year to fully recover)

Normal, expectable, or frequent PERMANENT side effects of pregnancy:

•stretch marks (worse in younger women)
•loose skin
•permanent weight gain or redistribution
•abdominal and vaginal muscle weakness
•pelvic floor disorder (occurring in as many as 35% of middle-aged former child-bearers and 50% of elderly former child-bearers, associated with urinary and rectal incontinence, discomfort and reduced quality of life -- aka prolapsed utuerus, the malady sometimes badly fixed by the transvaginal mesh)
•changes to breasts
•increased foot size
•varicose veins
•scarring from episiotomy or c-section
•other permanent aesthetic changes to the body (all of these are downplayed by women, because the culture values youth and beauty)
•increased proclivity for hemmorhoids
•loss of dental and bone calcium (cavities and osteoporosis)
•higher lifetime risk of developing Altzheimer's
•newer research indicates microchimeric cells, other bi-directional exchanges of DNA, chromosomes, and other bodily material between fetus and mother (including with "unrelated" gestational surrogates)

Occasional complications and side effects:

•complications of episiotomy
•spousal/partner abuse
•hyperemesis gravidarum
•temporary and permanent injury to back
•severe scarring requiring later surgery
(especially after additional pregnancies)
•dropped (prolapsed) uterus (especially after additional pregnancies, and other pelvic floor weaknesses -- 11% of women, including cystocele, rectocele, and enterocele)
•pre-eclampsia (edema and hypertension, the most common complication of pregnancy, associated with eclampsia, and affecting 7 - 10% of pregnancies)
•eclampsia (convulsions, coma during pregnancy or labor, high risk of death)
•gestational diabetes
•placenta previa
•anemia (which can be life-threatening)
•thrombocytopenic purpura
•severe cramping
•embolism (blood clots)
•medical disability requiring full bed rest (frequently ordered during part of many pregnancies varying from days to months for health of either mother or baby)
•diastasis recti, also torn abdominal muscles
•mitral valve stenosis (most common cardiac complication)
•serious infection and disease (e.g. increased risk of tuberculosis)
•hormonal imbalance
•ectopic pregnancy (risk of death)
•broken bones (ribcage, "tail bone")
•hemorrhage and
•numerous other complications of delivery
•refractory gastroesophageal reflux disease
•aggravation of pre-pregnancy diseases and conditions (e.g. epilepsy is present in .5% of pregnant women, and the pregnancy alters drug metabolism and treatment prospects all the while it increases the number and frequency of seizures)
•severe post-partum depression and psychosis
•research now indicates a possible link between ovarian cancer and female fertility treatments, including "egg harvesting" from infertile women and donors
•research also now indicates correlations between lower breast cancer survival rates and proximity in time to onset of cancer of last pregnancy
•research also indicates a correlation between having six or more pregnancies and a risk of coronary and cardiovascular disease

Less common (but serious) complications:


•peripartum cardiomyopathy
•cardiopulmonary arrest
•magnesium toxicity
•severe hypoxemia/acidosis
•massive embolism
•increased intracranial pressure, brainstem infarction
•molar pregnancy, gestational trophoblastic disease
(like a pregnancy-induced cancer)
•malignant arrhythmia
•circulatory collapse
•placental abruption
•obstetric fistula



More permanent side effects:
•future infertility
•permanent disability
•death.





But, but, but, she gets STRONGER HAIR! Ban abortion!

 

The lengths some people will go to in order to justify forcing a woman to remain pregnant!!! Honestly, no woman would remain pregnant because of this paltry list of "benefits" which are doubtful in the first place.

Sex Is Stellar

Every woman's experience is different -- feeling fatigued and self-conscious about your weight may make you want to send your partner far, far away -- that's normal too. If you're not up for sex,[/quote]

It seems your own article suggests that sex may not be "stellar."

Health Becomes a Habit

A woman does not have to be pregnant to learn to take care of herself, and it's ridiculous to suggest that is a BENEFIT of pregnancy.

Bye-Bye, Menstrual Cramps

Also ridiculous...and as if a woman doesn't make up for all those missed menstrual cramps during childbirth.


Cancer Risk Is Reduced


Any reduction must be miniscule, and a slight reduction in cancer risk is more than offset by the risks of the pregnancy.

Senses Are Heightened

We all know that the sense of smell is heightened by the fact that vomiting is triggered by those smells, but really, we don't have to be pregnant to enjoy eating ice cream.

Self-Confidence Soars

Really, really, really, it is best not to assume a woman's state of mind when she is pregnant. Most of us find it to be a very cranky time.

 

This post raises a great many questions regarding the actual real life experience of those who are opposed to women's rights.

 

...and educational experience...... The lack of scientific/biological knowledge is staggering.......

 

Your source at Catholic Education refers to a study of MediCal records and studies on women in Finland. They intentionally select (in the first case) women who are already in poverty and exclude women who are in stable families or have careers and could afford to pay the cost of an abortion without resorting to MediCal, and (in the second case) a population where many of the women getting an abortions are involved in prostitution (which has a number of risks not associated with the typical woman). It is shameful that the Catholic Church would be involved in bearing false witness in their attempt to mislead the public.

Your source at Minnesota Citizens Concerned for Life relies primarily on the Finland study (add enough prostitutes into the population and you can pretend abortion itself caused all those problems).

 

Partial quote (for context):

Partial quote (for context):

Regarding value judgements, I assume you are asking why we might value the mind versus the body with respect to personhood and human rights. I think that is what I have been explaining all along. All those aspects of humanity or personhood that we value in our fellow human beings are aspects of the mind. The moment the mind is activated (which, according to the research described in Scientific American, is at birth) it begins to create a matrix of memories, thoughts, and experiences that becomes the basis for reason and conscience. Every aspect of personhood that I can find in philosophy is based on aspects of the mind (which are totally independent of the nature of the human body).

Have you found any aspect of personhood that is independent of the mind?

 

We know part of that, when we ask those vehemently "pro-life" men.....

"Have you ever had a successful, long-term relationship with a woman?"


....and they dodge the question.