OK, so here is my sumary. Of the 850 000 Jews who emigrated to Israel since 1948, we have the following as proven expulsions (sensu stricto): Egypt: 50 in 1949 and an estimated 500 in 1956 = 550 My LA literature specialist friend contacted a Wiki editor and asked him to "audit" (as he put it) the Wiki article - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_exodus_from_Arab_and_Muslim_countries I have just revisited it. I did a search for the word "exp (so as to catch expulsion, expel and expelled) Here is what I found: Prelude Section: # No reference provided # No reference provided # Expulsion proof not found in the reference provided Background: # Irrelevant pertains to 1492 Morocco: # Clearly states that Jews were NOT expelled # The expelled refers to local neighbourhoods, not to expulsions from the country Algeria: # Clearly states that Jews were NOT expelled Tunisia: # Clearly states that Jews were NOT expelled Iraq: # Pappé does indeed say that Jews were expelled however .. # . there are four references to show that the ideas of expulsion were not executed they were wishes or plans, and . # . they were rendered unnecessary by the Israeli airlift agreed to by the Iraq government. # the expulsions referred to were from peripheral cities; i.e. there were no expulsions contributing to refugees in Israel. # a threat to, not actual expulsion # motives in trying to, not actual expulsion # Aharoni, who as we saw, provided zero evidence for significant actual expulsions # Confirms that nobody expelled us from Iraq # Porath does not say Jews were expelled # refers to seeking compensation for those who were expelled = zero nett proof for expulsions - just Pappé unquantified one-liner. OK, so here is my summary. Of the 850 000 Jews who emigrated to Israel from Arab lands since 1948, we have the following as proven expulsions (sensu stricto): Egypt: 50 released in 1949 and an estimated 500 in 1956 = 550 550 out of 850 000 = 0.06%, and the bulk of those were from a country that had just been invaded and occupied by Israel. So, back to the OP: No,800 000 Jews were NOT expelled after 1948. The best number after weeks of debate is 550 = 0.06% of the claim. I think I am done here. I can hear a troll arriving, singing Xmas carols. Gotta go.
Hi, HB. Yup, it was about time for the annual regurgitation of that one. In 1961 Childers debunked most of those. But the REAL killer in rebuttal of your thesis - based on a meticulously referenced study of two dozen Israeli and international archives - is Benny Morris' summary of the main reasons for the emptying of some 400+ Palestinian settlements, is that of that total, only 6 can be shown to have been caused by abandonment on Arab orders - 6 out of 421 = less than 1.5%. But you knew that, didn't you, HB. You have been shown it 7 times over recent years that they were based on daddy Shmuel Katz's 1951 propaganda pamphlets. You need to update your database ... sincerely meant.
Is the comment replying to what the OP posted or is it aobut what I posted? because it seems, accoridng to how you wrote your comment, that this comment is for the OP to read not me. As you wrote: Or this: Once again, I'm still waiting for your comment about what I wrote to you, if you want to debate with the OP please qoute him. When you are debating with me please refer to my comments and not to somone else's comments.
CLANGO...................... THE MIDDLE EAST: EXODUS If the Jews from Arab Countries were really “Arab Jews” why did they leave? Newsweek, 27 November 1967: In the North African cities of Tunis and Tripoli, thousands of Arab rioters went swarming through the narrow alleyways of the local Jewish ghettos ransacking shops and homes, gutting synagogues and attacking any Jews they could find. In Damascus, Syrian authorities cordoned off the Jewish quarter to prevent Arab rioters from getting in and the Jews from getting out. In Baghdad, the Iraqi state radio fanned public anger by broadcasting anti-Jewish quotes from the Koran. And in Cairo and Alexandria, Egyptian authorities arrested nearly every Jewish male over the age of 20. For the small Jewish minority living in Arab nations, these harassments were no new turn of events. Though some of their communities date back more than three millennia, Jewish life in the Moslem world has frequently been precarious. And while Arab spokesmen claim their fight is with Zionism, not Jews, the Jewish minority has always provided a convenient scapegoat for Arab humiliation in the chronic wars with Israel. As a result, hundreds of thousands of Jews have fled their native Arab lands, and, since 1948, a once-thriving community of more than 800,000 has dwindled to about 100,000. Many of the Jews who remain there were forbidden to leave by the authorities for fear they would emigrate to Israel. Indeed, more than half a million Jews of Arab countries have emigrated to Israel, and Israeli officials often argue that they represent a fair exchange for the Palestine Arab refugees... In Syria, the fanatic Ba'athist regime has set up a 2.4-mile radius beyond which the Jews of the Damascus ghetto may not venture. The Jews' telephones are tapped, their mail censored, and they dare not communicate even with relatives in nearby Beirut... Egypt's 2,500 Jews fare no better. Though President Gamal Abdel Nasser cabled them his greetings during the recent Jewish New Year, the recipients considered it a rather poor joke. Within the first hours of the June war, 500-including the chief rabbi of Alexandria-had been rounded up and crammed into tiny white-walled cells in the Abu Za'abal prison near Ismailia and the El Barga prison near Alexandria. Many detainees were beaten and tortured. Subsequently, all Jewish property in Egypt was confiscated by the state. Some of the prisoners have been released, but the majority is still in jail ... While Iraq's 3,000 Jews have long been subject to government restrictions, their situation has deteriorated harshly since the end of the war. Some 100 Jewish leaders are being held by Baghdad police, and the rest of the community is under virtual house arrest. Under instructions from the Iraqi Government, licenses to Jewish shop owners have been withdrawn; commercial firms have been ordered to fire all Jewish employees. The Jewish community’s assets were frozen, and all Jews have been strictly forbidden to leave Iraq. Though North African governments sought to protect their Jewish communities, they were unable to prevent Arab mob passion from exploding into cruel persecutions in Libya, Morocco and Tunisia... New York Post, 23 July 1968: THANT ADOPTS AN ARAB POSITION By Michael J. Berlin UN Secretary General U Thant has come down on the Arab side in a dispute over treatment of civilians involved in the Middle East war of 1967, the New York Post learned today. Since early this year, Arab representatives have been pressuring the Secretary General to open a new investigation of conditions of Arab civilians in Israeli-occupied areas. Thant was authorized to investigate this "humanitarian question" by resolutions of the Security Council and General Assembly, adopted in June and July 1967. Israel has been equally concerned over the treatment of Jewish communities in Egypt, Syria and Iraq, and has taken the position that any UN investigation must look into these communities as well. Thant (unable to win acquiescence to such a two-pronged investigation) plans to issue a progress report later this week on the secret negotiations over his proposal to send a special "humanitarian" representative to the area, a UN spokesman said today. The report will contain Thant's letters to the various ambassadors involved. According to one diplomat privy to Thant's letters, the report will include the Secretary General's interpretation -based on an opinion from the UN legal division-that the Council and Assembly resolutions were not intended to cover the Jewish communities in Arab lands. This apparently is a turnabout from Thant's public position, taken less than a year ago, when UN envoy Nils Gussing was sent to look into the Middle East civilian situation. At that time, Thant said that tile resolutions "might properly be interpreted as having application to the treatment ... of both Arab and Jewish persons in the states directly concerned because of their participation in the war." Gussing, in fact, had asked the Arab governments for their cooperation, and even was able to take a brief tour through Jewish shops in Damascus with Syrian government cooperation, just before his return to the UN last summer. Now Syria has rejected UN inspection of the conditions of its Jewish citizens. And Egypt and Iraq, both combatants in 1967, have withheld any positive response. Israel, informed of Thant's apparent change of mind, has made no formal reply, but one is expected soon. Israel's position is known to be that the Secretariat is submitting to Arab pressure and using legalistic arguments as an excuse to justify, after the fact, a one-sided political decision. A UN spokesman had no comment on this contention ... 11 Giornale d'italia, Rome, 1-2 October 1968: CURFEW AND JAIL FOR JEWS IN EGYPT, SYRIA AND IRAQ The Security Council of the United Nations has decided to send a Commission to Israel to investigate the conditions of the Arabs in occupied zones. Nothing to object, naturally, if the decision has a humanitarian character. The nomination of this Commission could at the most be considered superfluous, as there are no prohibited zones in Israel. Every part of Israel as well as every part of the occupied territories may be visited by anyone, including tourists. It would have been logical if, at the same time, the Security Council took a similar decision with regard to Jews living in Arab countries, who cannot be approached by anyone. Regrettably, news regarding the conditions under which Jews live in the Middle East is very disturbing. In Egypt there remain about 1,300 Jews: from among those, 200 heads of families have been locked up in the maximum security prison of Al-Tura, without having ever stood trial. The banking account of the Jewish community is blocked. Jews are not permitted to work or perform any remunerative activity. They are obliged to live on desultory donations. In Syria, there are about 5,000 Jews: 3,000 in Damascus, 1,500 in Aleppo and about 300 in Kemishli. All Jewish employees and teachers have been dismissed. A shameful nightly curfew has been imposed on all members of the Jewish community from 10 p.m. Even more alarming appears the situation in Iraq, where discriminatory laws have been promulgated; a special act authorizes the confiscation of Jewish property. Here, too, there is a curfew from 10 p.m. No Jew may sell his property or withdraw from his bank more than 100 dinars a month. Sad messages, denouncing this situation and calling for a humanitarian intervention, have been dispatched to the President of the Security Council and the Secretary General of the UN, U Thant, by the Union of the Italian Jewish Communities and by the National Association of Deportees and Refugees from Egypt. It is to be hoped that the international organs show themselves to be sensitive to the new drama through which Jewish communities in Arab countries live-a drama which recalls to mind the persecutions which we hoped would by now have been banished for ever.
Excuse me... you sir and Childer can go dance the horizontal 'bossa nova' for what I care... It seems now evident that you have unearthed a new clay deity and you think this is the one who will bring Peace and serenity in the region... well I do not think so. If I have to rely on something... it is the following <Authoritative British Records> that no one can deny or suspect it is fraudulent. Go check this. British Foreign Office Document #371/75342/XC/A/4991 [From "Revising or Devising Israel's History" by Prof. Shlomo Slonim in Jewish Action, Summer 5760/2000, Vol. 60 #4]
It is obvious. Your main source for demonstrating widespread expulsions from Arab lands is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_exodus_from_Arab_and_Muslim_countries A Wiki editor has checked the article and made comments about the references. I summarised the status item by item in my recent post. Done.
Hey, HB. Are you posting from your phone again? You hit the wrong button. Your text does not contain a single reference to expel/expelled/expulsion, never mind refuting the figures that I have painstakingly gathered, which fully refute your OP. Sorry, mate. More diligence. PS: Please note - I have never disputed the fact that the Arab lands emptied of their Jewish populations at three critical moments in recent history. I have also never disputed that the Jews in Arab countries underwent hardships. Why would I? It is obvious from the historical record. And understanding why those hardships were placed upon the Jews after centuries of relatively peaceful coexistence is also obvious: 1) In 1948 the Zionists ethnically cleansed 75 to 80% of Palestinian Arabs from their ancestral lands 2) In 1956 the Zionists invaded Egypt. 3) In 1966/1967 the Zionists invaded Syria, Jordan and Egypt. What is the great mystery about??? But your OP was that 800 000 Jews were expelled from Arab lands, and that - EXPULSION - is a crock. The REAL data are clear.
Are they really refugees? What is the definition of a refugee? Does it include voluntary departure? For instance, when the majority chose to emigrate to Israel, drawn by the millennia-old yearning to be back in the land of Zion that we see quoted so often, are they therefore refugees? What % of those emigrants were convinced by Zionists to go to Israel or were drawn there from the banks of modern 'rivers of Babylon'? In other words, is the Aliyah one of the most basic tenets of Zionism or not? Or do you mean that none of them wanted to return to Zion? The Arabs forced them to go? If so, please provide supporting data and references.
Really? Could you show me where #371/75342/XC/A/4991 appears in Slonim's work? I did find the comment "Did they?" from the Foreign Office. Many thanks I cannot help but notice that you prefer quoting from Joe Katz and don't even attempt to refute the archive studies (including those of the Haganah). Interesting choice.
The flight of some Jews from some Arab countries was a natural reaction to forced expulsion of hundreds thousands of non-Jews by Zionist -Jews from f Palestine . Palestinians are not responsible for the flight of Jews from some other Arab countries. " Israel's Ashkenazi ruling class, by devious means , caused , , the exodus of Jews from Arab countries in order to rapidly increase the Zionist state's Jewish population and exploit them as immigrant labour . ==== The Myth of Jewish Refugees from Arab Land "In mid last October, the Israeli main paper Yedioth Ahranoth (Ynetnews) published a historical study by Yigal Bin-Nun; an Israeli historian and professor in Bar Ilan University, confirming and documenting Zionists crimes against Moroccan Jews in North Africa in order to convince them to immigrate to Israel. In his study Bin-Nun has confirmed what I wrote back in 2007 (The Myth of Jewish Refugees from Arab Land). Bin-Nun is originally a Moroccan Jew, who immigrated with his family to Israel. In his historical research he states that the Mossad; the Israeli secret service, had sent to Morocco in early 1960s a group of its agents, whose primary mission was to carry out terrorist attacks against the well-settled Jews, to convince them that they were the victims of persecution by the kingdom, and to encourage them to immigrate to, and to settle in Israel promising them all expenses paid throughout the whole process. - Zionist crimes against Arab Jews, in particular, is an open secret very well known to Arabs as well as to Arab Jews. Zionist terror against Moroccan Jews is just one example of other terrorist attacks against well-established and peacefully coexisting Arab Jewish communities in all Arab countries; including Egypt, Lebanon, Syria and Iraq, in order to persuade them to immigrate to Israel. The case of transferring over 100 thousand Iraqi Jews from Iraq is the most well-documented open secret plotted together by the newly formed Israeli government under Ben-Gurion and Nuri as-Said; the British puppet ruler of Iraq in late 1950s . Mossad agents testified to having planted bombs within the Jewish community in order to spread hatred and fear to provoke Jewish flight from Iraq. Naeim Giladi, an Iraqi Jew, was an Israeli agent, who is very well familiar with the Israeli terrorist attacks against Iraqi Jewish communities. He stated “… that Jews from Islamic lands did not immigrate willingly to Israel; that, to force them to leave, Jews killed Jews.” In his book “Ben Gurion’s Scandals: How the Haganah & the Mossad Eliminated Jews” he documented that Operation Ezra & Nehemiah, also known as Operation Ali Baba, was the airlift of more than 120 thousand Iraqi Jews from Iraq to Israel as a result of Israeli agents’ terrorist attacks against Iraqi Jews. On arriving to Israel the Arab Jews discovered the ugly realities of this misleading “Promised Land”. They have been humiliated, discriminated against, abused, neglected and enslaved. The main reason for such treatment is that Zionism is a colonial movement invented by European Jews (Ashkenazi Jews) for the benefits of the elite European Jews. After the establishment of the illegitimate Israeli state and the evacuation of Palestinians from the country, Israel needed more immigrants, specifically farmers, to cultivate the newly evacuated Palestinian farms to provide food for the country. Israel also needed young immigrants who could be conscripted in the military in order to accomplish its expanding dream. Ashkenazi Jews were more industrial than farmers and more political than soldiers. Arab Jews were the solution. On their arrival to Israel Mizrahi Jews underwent many humiliating experiences; one of them is being sprayed with DDT. The Ringworm Children documentary highlights the story of tens of thousands of Jewish children, mostly from North African countries, who received high doses of radiation resulting in the deaths of 6000 of them, and the long-term effects that included seizures, infertility and cancer. The Mizrahi Jews then were usually placed into what is called Ma’abarot (transit camps) for months or years before being settled in peripheral Kibbutz, in evacuated Palestinian farm villages, or on the desolate borders with hostile Arab countries. They were allowed to start agricultural centers known as Moshavim. Their children were denied higher education, banned from official jobs, and were conscripted into the army. Comparatively, Ashkenazi Jews were settled in main cities, in new fully equipped homes, enjoyed higher education, and employed in important governmental positions. Mizrahi Jews were considered the uneducated cheap labor. They were discriminated against and looked down upon by Ashkenazi Jews as well as by the Israeli government. Israel had what was known as “Department of Jews from Islamic Countries”. This is a way of differentiating them from Ashkenazi Jews. Mizrahi Jews fought for better living conditions, human rights, and equality through protest movement and organizations such as the Wadi Salib riots, Israeli Black Panthers (HaPanterim HaShkhorim), Tent Movement, the SHAS party, Achoti, HILA, and Hakeshet Hademokratit Hamizrahit (landmark housing rights) and in struggles in Sderot, Kiryat Shimona, and Kfar Shalem. The Israeli Black Panthers were a group of young Mizrahi Jews formed in 1971 in the Palestinian evacuated neighborhood of Musrara in Jerusalem. Knesset member Uri Avneri, and Naim Giladi were among the founders and main activists of the organization. They protested against discrimination and racism towards Mizrahi Jews and forced the Israeli government to shift its budget priorities around housing and education. The Tent Movement was started by Yamin Swisa in 1976 to protest housing conditions and shortages in the occupied Palestinian Katamon neighborhood in Jerusalem by squatting in vacant apartments built for new Russian immigrants. The movement raised awareness about Israeli discrimination of housing, education, wages, and the building of new settlements for new Russian immigrants while providing nothing for the poor Mizrahi communities. Zionism is the latest brain child of the elite rich western Jews to accomplish their thousands years old dream of building Greater Israel in the center of globe to control the whole world using other Jews as mere tools and fuel in the process. The regular every day Jew, as a human being, does not have any worth for Zionism besides being a tool to subjugate the country he is a citizen of, under the Zionist financial power, in order to use that country’s resources for the service of the Zionist project. An examining deep look at the political and financial systems of powerful countries such as USA, Canada, UK, France, and Germany, recognizes this fact. Insignificant Jewish masses have been uprooted from their original country and transported to occupied Palestine to be fuel for Zionist wars against Arab nation. Zionism had uprooted two people from their homelands: Palestinians out of Palestine and Arab Jews out of Arab world, and had pushed them to fight each other. One Iraqi Jew, who was transferred to Israel, put it this way: “In Baghdad we got along fine with the Arabs. But here (in Israel) we have to fight them.” Ella Habiba Shohat, an Arab Iraqi Jew wrote: “In Egypt, Morocco, Syria, Lebanon, Iraq and Tunisia, Jews became members of legislatures, of municipal councils, of the judiciary, and even occupied high economic positions … immigration to Israel had affected our uprootedness or ambiguous positioning within Israel itself, where we have been systematically discriminated against by institutions that deployed their energies and material to the consistent advantage of European Jews and to the consistent disadvantage of Oriental Jews. What for Ashkenazi immigrants from Russia and Poland was a social aliya (literally “ascent” was for Oriental Sephardic Jews a yerida (“descent”.” Read more here : http://mwcnews.net/focus/editorial/33309-zionist-crimes.html .. -
Prelude Section: The prelude section is indeed mentioning the term "expulsion". Marocco: You said about Marocco that Jews got expelled from their neighbourhoods, and still this is an expulsin! Algeria: according to your source According to your source, it doesnt mentions that the Algerian government provided alternative houses to the Jews that been evecuated and all the rest "Pieds-Noirs". therefore, they got expelled from their houses. Moreover, according to the Belgian historian Weinstock, that even wrote a book (“A Very Long Presence: How the Arab World Lost Its Jews, 1947-1967") regerding to the Jews in the Arab countries said: He's also regarding on this subject about the poor supportof Zionism: Regarding Iraq: As you can see the Jews had no choice but to leave. Source: http://forward.com/articles/199257/the-inconvenient-truth-about-jews-from-arab-lands/?p=all
Your whole analysis is a humongus crock!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Your one sided option that perhaps these Jews were not indigenous to their country long lonnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnng before the upsurge of the hordes of Islam puts your thesis to rest... You do not know anything more than side with those who are eroding the stature and the integrity of Jews worldwide... A moment of honest reflection is optional in your case.
Well... what does the Hagana archives say sport? When you compare a world renown personality like Joseph E. Katz, Middle Eastern Political and Religious History analyst, a man that was the confident of PM Menahem Begin to your Childer chilling garbage hoarder... there is no comparison really... Childer is still in the garbage dump.
Yeah. That means you could not find where #371/75342/XC/A/4991 appears in Slonim's work. Which means that the Katz duo have bitten the dust yet again. Could you not just have the cojones to simply say so? Childer is proven correct ..... YET AGAIN. "Always check the Zionist claims as to the "truth"." - - - Updated - - - You lost. There were a few expulsions - 550 of them. The OP claimed that there were 800 000. You continue to try to make "hardship"; "discrimination"; "trying to expel" = real Expulsions. You failed. There were only 550 out of 800 000 Good night
Here is my rebuttal for I do not want to waste more time with you ever again... This was Lebanon before the Jihad and the Muslim takeover. One must have an interest advocating for worthless pieces of trash. Watch and cry. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9VaVUcU27I&sns=em
Many thanks Marlowe. The best that the Zionists could show were 550 out of 800 000. Thanks for the sterling support.
Revealing that you hold Jews from Arab nations responsible for the expulsion of hundreds thousands of non-Jews by Zionist -Jews from Palestine
Once again with the OP- HBendor. Lest time I checked I wasnt HBendor so please stop reply to my comment with what other people say. Please refer to what I gave you, but I guess you prefer not to! Once again with your deflection tactic.
HUH ? Looks like you've got a comprehension problem - cant understand what I've posted . - Byeeee.. .....
This was Lebanon under Israeli Occupation : Israeli war on Lebanon and invasion 1982 This part contains info on Ariel Sharon and his murder - genocide of innocent Palestinians in the Sabra and Shatila concentration camps. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJhyvXPhaT0 It was 12 years ago when Prime Minister Menachem Begin admitted in public that Israel had fought three wars in which it had a "choice," meaning Israel started the wars. Begin's admission came in a speech delivered on Aug. 8, 1982, before the Israeli National Defense College. His purpose was to defuse mounting criticism of Israel's invasion of Lebanon, which had begun two months earlier on June 5 and was clearly one of Israel's wars of "choice." The others were in 1956 and 1967. At the time of Begin's speech, the Israeli siege of Muslim West Beirut was already five weeks old. Israeli U.S.-made aircraft were launching daily air strikes and hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians throughout the country were being killed, wounded, starved, terrorized and uprooted from their homes, most of them by munitions made in America On July 29, the United Nations Security Council demanded that Israel lift its siege. Only the United States abstained in the 14-0 vote.1 When Israel refused, the council voted again on Aug. 4 to censure Israel with a vote of 14-0, with the U.S. again abstaining.2 On Aug. 6, the United States exercised its veto to block a council resolution condemning Israel's occupation practices, the sixth time in 1982 the Reagan administration had used the veto to shield Israel from international criticism Despite the Reagan administration's lonely support of Israel, there was increasing disillusionment within Israel itself at the terrible toll being inflicted on Lebanese civilians. An estimated 10,000 Israelis had already staged a protest rally in Tel Aviv as early as June 26.4 Another hundred thousand Israelis demonstrated against Begin's government on July 3 under the banner of Peace Now. Other antiwar groups—Yesh Givul (There is a Limit), Soldiers Against Silence, Parents Against Silence—soon sprang up as the siege continued.5 The anti-war mood increased when Israeli Colonel Eli Geva, head of an elite armored brigade involved in Israel's invasion of Lebanon, resigned his commission in July to protest the siege of Beirut ////
Zionism had uprooted two people from their homelands: Palestinians out of Palestine and Arab Jews out of Arab world, and had pushed them to fight each other. One Iraqi Jew, who was transferred to Israel, put it this way: “In Baghdad we got along fine with the Arabs. But here (in Israel) we have to fight them.” Ella Habiba Shohat, an Arab Iraqi Jew wrote: “In Egypt, Morocco, Syria, Lebanon, Iraq and Tunisia, Jews became members of legislatures, of municipal councils, of the judiciary, and even occupied high economic positions … immigration to Israel had affected our uprootedness or ambiguous positioning within Israel itself, where we have been systematically discriminated against by institutions that deployed their energies and material to the consistent advantage of European Jews and to the consistent disadvantage of Oriental Jews. What for Ashkenazi immigrants from Russia and Poland was a social aliya (literally “ascent” was for Oriental Sephardic Jews a yerida (“descent”.”
