Jews Now Minority in Israel and Territories

Hey!!

1) What % of the land did the Jews own? I mean of all of post-TransJordan Palestine. I ask again .... what %. Cough up.

2) Now answer this. Since when does owning title through purchase by deed-of-sale entitle you to sovereignty over you yard? I mean if 1 000 000 Italiands own plots of land in New York State, are they allowed to clain the New Occidental Italian republic?

So WTF is your point?

 

So, the fact that the Jews rose AFTER the holocaust and multiplied, means that the Holocaust was justified? Have you now lost all sense of equivalence??

Boirat!!!, have you totally lost all semblance of reason in your attempt to sanctify the abhorrent Zionist cleansing - to apply Fairy Liquid to the Zionist equivalent- whereas a German trying to do so would be prosecuted??

Bent, Mate .... like a rusty paperclip.

 

the Indians didn't "legally" own North America.

does that mean Europeans were right to take it all from them?

 

hmmm.......the OP appears to be wrong.

There are 6.06 million Jews in Israel.

1.99 million non-Jews in Israel.

1.76 million non-Jews in Gaza.

2.1 million non-Jews in the West Bank.

that brings a total non-Jews in Palestine, to 5.8 million.

around 200,000 less than Jews.

 

I do not deny anything... this would be the ultimate reason for them to join the IDF like the Druze, the circassian and the Bedouins and be Israelis nonetheless.

I suspect that some would leave from their own volition and then the Jews will be blamed once more for another Exodus.

I am for TRANSFER this would be the most reasonable equitable move/decision ever... They would be recompensed for property left behind in Dollars (if any owned of course)... (this is exactly what the Jews of Arab country did not benefit from when they were kicked out of their place of birth) they would be able to own land in Jordan (the Romans called the place the granary of the Roman Empire)... MONEY TALKS...

I do not believe in Oslo and I do not believe inTwo States living side by side... for...
These are TWO DIFFERENT PEOPLES
These are TWO DIFFERENT RELIGIONS
These are TWO DIFFERENT LANGUAGES
These are TWO DIFFERENT ASPIRATIONS
When the Muslims separated from India and the non Muslim of the North India went south, there was a movement of Eight Million in each direction... Not that India is denude of Muslims but they are subdued and cooperative.
Pakistan was formed out of India exactly like Jordan was created out of 77% of the Mandate for Palestine...

TRANSFER IS THE SOLUTION!!!!

 

that is your "Final Solution" to the Palestinian problem?

transfer by force?

well sir, that would lead to another Holocaust of millions of Jews.

 

Palestinian Arabs, West Bank*)2,676,740

Palestinian Arabs, Gaza Strip*)1,763,387

(Total Palestinians, Israeli military-administered territories: 4,440,127)

Israeli Arabs (citizens)*)1,666,800

Total Arabs under Israeli sovereign administration*)6,106,927

Israeli Jews*)6,056,100

 

GLIMPSING THE WORLD OF TRUTH – YOM KIPPUR THOUGHTS 5774

1 Comment(*)11 September 2013

"My prayer for my people and my country is that we will refine our aspirations for a state “Based on freedom, justice and peace as envisaged by the prophets of Israel, and carry out total social and political equality regardless of religion, race or gender” (Israeli Declaration of Independence.) even as it safeguards our security and economic prosperity. I pray that we will know how to distinguish between our true existential needs and the needs rooted in the World of Falsity. Regarding the needs rooted in the World of Falsity, may we never again hear in our Land, “It isn’t just, but our needs come first.” May we understand that there is room to bring Jews to the Negev and foster green development without dispossessing the Bedouin. May we understand that we can build a healthy economy which also cares for the weakest and poorest among us. It is possible to nurture a Jewish society without closing our borders to asylum seekers. It is possible to live full and meaningful Jewish lives in our ancient homeland without oppressing the Palestinian people. It is not only possible, but we must ask ourselves what kind of Judaism are we living if we do otherwise.

http://rhr.org.il/eng/2013/09/glimpsing-the-world-of-truth-yom-kippur-thoughts-5774/

Reading what Jews of Rabbis For Human Rights are writing, as they take stands for human rights for all in Israel and Palestine reminds me there are Jews in the land of Palestine like the Prophet Isaiah. After the Gospels, The Book of Isaiah is my favorite book of The Bible. And it is very personal, I was dealing with difficulties in my life once years ago and was very fearful. I was reading Isaiah, with a Matthew Henry Commentary. And one day, the fear I felt went away and that kind of fear I had never came back again. The Prophet Isaiah spoke Truth when confronting Injustice among his own people. They killed him for that, but for all of his life he never stopped confronting Injustice with Truth.

 

And two peoples living in peace and prosperity. Just like the Jews and Palestinians could be had the Palestinians accepted the tenants of 181.

No, that is not an example of two peoples living in peace as I provided in my post.

Around 6%.

A counter question, that leaves 94%, almost all of which the British owed along with a few large holdings held by abut 200 Arabs (who for the most part did not live there and, had little concern with day to day politics and Jew/Arab problems) with the small remaining amounts held by Arabs who lived there and fewer still had actual deeds to the land they said they owned so, with no such thing as squatters rights as the land is rented there and, reverts back to the state if it is not paid up in taxes and, the fact that Jews actually provided much needed money for farmers to use in their own lands when they sold part of their holdings, how much did the Arabs actually own?

Cough up please and don't forget to provide quotes and links too!

New York is a state within a country already recognized as one by the world and therefore is not open to becoming another country. All that could change if the US goes to the UN and says that the Italians living there can form their own nation though but I don't see that happening soon/

That if the Palestinians had accepted 181 they could be living a pretty good life right now and, there is still time.

 

Contrary to the hasbara, the Arabs,

http://unispal.un.org/unispal.nsf/0/07175de9fa2de563852568d3006e10f3?OpenDocument

http://domino.un.org/maps/m0094.jpg

 

I will reply piece-by-piece so that no wriggles fall through the cracks, and get construed as having been accepted

STATEMENT OF PROBLEM:

Point 1. Does purchasing real estate = obtaining political sovereignty
Point 2. If so, did the Jews buy sufficient land to justify the approval of a country the size of Israel.

What you are proposing is that the Palestinians should have accepted three gross violations of international law in a row, and then they could have lived in La-La land in peace with butterflies and little flowers. Indeed ... La-La land. We will see just how illegal this is.

There you go!! Exactly. Now take time out to analyse your own data. Here, let me assist you.

That 6% was surficial real estate – right? Just bits of ground bought like you and I would. In fact exactly the same as those which many Palestinians own in Israel today. What rights does that give them to sovereignty? Speak up please; we cannot hear you. Yet for some bizarre reason the Pallies should have been happy when this gave rise to the granting of a state to a bunch of foreign immigrants; immigrants who were allowed in against international law - see the UN Charter; the League of Nations Covenant and the Geneva Conventions.

I bet that 6% is a lot less than the Irish own in New York State, the Mexicans in southern California, or the Italians in eastern Connecticut. And I repeat …. None of this is gives any rights whatsoever to those people to be granted the Republic of Green Leprechauns or the Democratic Republic of Burritos.

….. (to be continued) ……

 

great addition to the thread.

I like what these folk have to say

http://rhr.org.il/eng/about/


Thanks for the contribution!

ie.... it proves that real 'jews' are the minority in israel

 

There are two massive flaws with your thesis, HBendor.

1. The assumption that the Israelis will abide by the agreement and treat the Arabs as proper Israeli citizens. Look at the way Israel has betrayed the interests of the Bedouin; they used to be your allies and in exchange you are destroying their lifestyle, taking their migration grounds and villages, and driving them into the arms of your enemies. What is to stop Israel from doing the same to any other Arabs who make their peace with Israel? Just how long will Israeli Arabs keep their rights in Israel if their population became a much larger percentage of its citizens?

2. Jordan is no solution. There isn't enough economy or resources for the existing Jordanians (Jordan have been receiving some kind of foreign aid for decades) and you want to dump an additional two and a half million people on them? And why would the Hashemite Kingdom want a huge influx of Palestineans that would virtually guarantee they would be overthrown. That is a massive difference between Jordan and the historical creation of Pakistan. Not to mention that effectively bits of each country were swapped between Pakistan and India (although they messed up the Kashmir area); I don't see Israel volunteering to give up one inch of the West Bank to Jordan.

What you are really advocating is a thinly veiled rationale for dispossessing millions of people of their lands and property and driving them into an impoverished and largely desert nation where they will continue to be forced to live on charity. Do you really think such an action would be forgiven by the larger world or that the ex-Palestineans would not hate Israel for a hundred generations?

 

his goal for the Arabs is no different than current Neo-Nazi goals for the Jews.

 

... (continued) ...

So, for owning 6% of the real estate the Jews were giving 77% of the sovereign land. And you seriously suggest to us that the indigenous Palestinians should have been perfectly happy with this and have accepted "181"!!?? You were asked by what law commercial surface title equated to sovereign political ownership rights, but you have remained silent on this magical system.

But it gets even worse. What justification did you provide for this amazing claim?

So according to you the granting of 77% of the Mandate territorial sovereignty to a people who owned 6% of the commercial surface title was fine, because most of the 94% that remained was "British owned".

Who on earth fed you that load of crap? I would absolutely LOVE to see a reference supporting this "British ownership".MEGA MYTH HERE!!!!

Because without it, the rest of your post crumbles to dust.

 

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Nope.

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Not so, therefore to continue with this train of thought is a waste of time.

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Nope. That they would have been far better off accepting it than the are now unless you believe they are living life large in their collective ghettos which case I’d question your sanity.

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No need, you agree it was 6% now, I’ve answered your question and, prior to moving on and answering more, do your part and tell us all how much individual Arabs other than landlord’s owned please.

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I would agree wholeheartedly.

Nope.

Nope.

I don’t recall being asked this. Please show us all where you asked me this in response to something I actually argued rather than something you imagined I contended.

Golly Klip, you’re building your own strawman to argue with as I never said any of that. You asked how much land the Jews owned and I said 6%, then asked you how much the Arabs owned, not the government or the landlords but individual Arabs. Is that too much for you to answer and provide link and quote to without inventing an entire argument to go around my answering your question and asking the same easy to answer one of you?

British Mandate of Palestine Klip. They were the ones who controlled everything as they were obligated to by the Geneva Convention and other agreements of this kind just as the Ottomans did prior to so, any land that was not owned outright with deed came under their control.

So Klip, tell us all, how much land did individual Arabs own and please provide link and quote to show us along with your number.

Incredible the amount of hubris you invented to do nothing but fill up space as all I have said is that the Palestinians would have been better off to have accepted 181 than they are now living in squalor and then, asked you a counter question to your question. I have not made any points or arguments other than the one about 181 – yet, but not to worry, I shall once you provide the answer to my question along with the rudimentary documentation requested.

 

Irrelevant to the case for sovereignty … as you have already agreed.

In Post # 165

Here is the link that you ask for, the one where you claimed British ownership:

And then you answered where you found evidence for that claim, as follows:

Your claim remains a pure invention on your part. Show me where the Palestine Mandate confers ownership on Britain. Let me help you try to find support for that nonsense – here is the text of the Mandate (click for source)

Nothing about ownership, Drew. Zip. Nada. You made that up, didn’t you? You have been caught out yet again fiddling with historical facts.
I know … I know … one needs to grab at straws when you see your MYTHs crumbling around you.

Irrelevant, as you have already agreed. We are dealing with the improper granting of sovereignty here and not applying for a mortgage.

If what you mean is simply that, had the Arabs accepted “181” the Palestinians would not be living in refugee ghettos, ignoring the wrong or right of the matter; ignoring whether it is just or unjust; ignoring what the main reason was that caused them to become refugees ... even THEN your claim is still not supported by facts.

And the reason is that the Zionist leaders had a "Transfer" plan. They are on record as stating that “181” was only a convenient stepping stone. The ethnic cleansing would have still taken place – it was on the critical path to the holy goal – the achievement of Eretz Yisrael. So it HAD to take place even if the Arabs had voted for “181”.

 

Sorry, I am moving the discussion onward so tell us please, how much land did the Arabs own as individuals?

Ah yes, the post where you asked the question and then immediately in the same post said that I remained silent for not answering it. Wondering how I am supposed to answer something that has not been asked of me but, seems you are carrying out a one man two part discussion here.

No Klip, the only link I've asked for is the one supporting the numbers of individual Arabs who owned property in Paletine in that era which you have yet to provide.

No Klip, owned was meant as controlled. So sorry you didn't understand the way in which it was used, especially when I clarified it by using the word 'controlled' when you seem to be confused;

Your link to the Mandate explains;

Sort of like ......"2. (used as an intensifier to indicate oneself as the sole agent of some activity or action

be responsible for, be in possession of"

Now, back to my question, how much land did individual Palestinians actually own Klip?

No, you thought you were talking about that but I am not as I am going to take this in a different direction once you provide your reply. Please answer the question and provide something realistic to back your numbers up with, if you cannot, tell us why you cannot

No I simply say that their life would be better at the very least unless you are going to say that it would have been worse in which case what subsequent events may have made this so had they accepted?

That is rather presumptuous of you Klip considering that all one would need to thwart this 'plan' would be to accept and then await the UN to mark international boundaries in order to ensure the claim that the land was theirs would be recognized for the world to see forever more and then carry on farming.

In any case, still waiting for your answer to the question. If no answer with supporting link and quote or explanation as to why you cant answer it then I shall assume that you are out of your depth and have to concentrate on frivolous hubris in which case our exchange here is over as was the one where you couldn't tell us what the terms of the Habib Ceasefire were.

 

Drew you will never get an answer because this fellow has not yet found it in the annal of one Called Erskine Shyster.

.

Told ya... his quiver is empty and his bow is broken... I love it when he digs more to drive a wedge between the Jews and their Land.

Here is the answer Drew and this will go to challenge those that pretend to know... (I do not mean You)

I am making this public and this has no reflection on the question you asked... I am practically sure you did pose the question to disarm the perpetrator of Myths... finally:

What was the land ownership situation when the State of Israel was reconstituted in 1948? According to the official data published by the outgoing British mandatory administration before the reconstitution of the State (Survey of Palestine, 1946), only 8.6% of the land was in fact owned by Jews, while over 70% was state land, which had passed from Turkish to British authority and now to Israel, the legal heir of the British mandate. The remaining lands - 33% belonged to Arab landowners, and the Arab owners who hastened to obey the call of their leaders “to clear the way for the Arab armies which would annihilate the Jewish State” abandoned 16.9%. These landowners did not consider the possibility that the Jewish State would remain.

The key to the entire problem lies in that large percentage of state land, most of which was in the Negev - an unsettled area of approximately 12,557,000 Dunams, or close to 50% of the entire area (26,320,000) of mandatory Palestine. These lands had never been under Arab ownership, neither during the period of British rule nor even during the preceding Turkish regime. The contention heard time and again from Arab propagandists - that 95% of the territory of Palestine had belonged to the Arabs - is, therefore, entirely without basis in fact… and borrowing Klip's nomenclature a MYTH!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ah............ I forgot : How come the Jews declared Independence when the Land was not completely theirs?

I hope I gave enough evidence above to state that during the 400 years of the Ottoman Empire and the thirty years of the Mandate the Arabs were not 'INDEPENDENT' they were not homogeneous, did not have a government of their own and did not have a P.M. and a Flag like you see today... it was only in 1964 that Arafat declared "Falastinouna" = our Palestine.

 

Bedouin have roamed the Negev for 3,000 years.

They didn't immigrate from Europe.

Look, Hitler wanted to get rid of the Jews an now you want to get rid of the Palestinians.

 

Rape of woman will naturally increase the birth rate. Jihad also decreases birth rates!!!!!

 

Absolute nonsense... when you roam the land you do not own it... OK so far? This is Government Land.

If you look at any geographic map you will find that Bedouins roam in Syria, in Jordan in Israel in Egypt and north Africa... I do not expect a retort.

The last insult is according to you immigration is a curse... I do not... The Jews are returning home and no amount of depressive remarks from your side means anything at all....

 

The Bedouin followed pasture for their herds back and forth from northern Arabia thru Kuwait etc.

Arabia has made provisions for them.

Israel hasn't.

 

Absolutely untrue! Bedouins have been in the IDF since 1948... and through the years Israel wanted them to roam no more and built housing for them as a permanent refuge... something that the US has not done in the past for Indian Tribes... or Europe for their Gypsies

I beg to disagree! Jordan is <the ultimate solution> and the fatal flaw of Israel is that they made the Arab situation in Israel so <ENVIABLE> Free hospitalization, free medical service, the wages are identical to Israelis, some have pensions and social Security for all. Point ONE ARAB country that has similar not identical emoluments? hmmm

You are returning back to the same old refrain <Jews Bad and Arabs Good>... Well the Arabs are well treated, already the Christians Arabs are joining the IDF and things look more stable but for the Area A + B led by one deluded Abbas.

 

Most Bedouin do not serve in the IDF.. and most are relegated to off grid villages where their row crops are routinely destroyed.