Funny, but most times I am the DD. I drink very little and my friends cant seem to control their alcohol intake. And maybe I need church to attone for my sins of wearing the low cut shirt?
Another discussion for another thread perhaps,. Diana was judging what a woman wears correct? Yes perhaps I was judging her on simultaneously going to bars with the intent to attract attention, and going to church, but as a I say...that's off-topic to the original point of the thread. I've never bought into the one foot in hell, the other in heaven approach to faith.. I'll leave it at that.
Wait..I cant go to church if I go to bars? Or if I wear a low cut shirt? And I dont just judge woman. I judge the men too. I am an equal oppurtunity judger. I am not a b-tch about it. I am not outwardly rude. But first impressions do matter. And the majority of people that say otherwise are lying. Its like when a woman tells you (general you) size doesnt matter. She's lying.
my last interview, for the job I got, I saw my competition waiting in the lobby. out of 3 of the finalists... I was wearing a suit, tie, briefcase with my prepared items. my competition.... wearing a jean skirt, the other was wearing untied basketball shoes with slacks and a button down shirt, no tie..... Now, I was also prepared, and I'm not sure how prepared they were, but in a tie of preperation and experience was going to go to me because of how I was dressed and how they were dressed. I, for one, appreciate when I'm competing with people who don't understand the importance of attire.... it gives me an advantage. As for how I raise my kids, they will also understand the importance. it's not like this is something new (dressing to impress) but it's human nature as old as time. A few progressive thinkers in 2013, aren't going to change that fact. but by all means, teach your kids "it shouldn't matter" it'll help my kids later.
lol yes like I said, for all I know, I was the most qualified for the position... I mean, I did have a copy of the questionarre they use in every interview from the previous time I interviewed there... I just studied and prepared for the answers, plus I had 13 years experience and multiple certifciations.... But since my competition could also boast the same creditials, I have to make sure I stand out in a positive way. wearing a tie competing against someone in a jean skirt, nice shirt and flip-flops?????? or a guy wearing unlaced Basketball shoes.... that's +1 point in my favor in what could have been a close decision. dress is important. It says a lot about you, both good or bad. I understand in the 21st century, women are equal, should be judged on inner worth and blah blah blah.... but if you're dressing like a street walker, don't be stunned that you are treated like one.
While you can't judge a book by its cover, you can most certainly judge the cover. If the cover is ugly, and you don't like it, then that's a bad cover, isn't it? As much as I'd like to live my life, based on how the world *should* work.... I'd rather live my life based on how the world *DOES* work. People judge based on appearance, and they always will. As in.... they *ALWAYS* will judge based on appearances. Meaning, that no matter how you think the world should work, no matter how many agree with you, no matter how many thousands of years go by.... people will still judge you based on how you look. Welcome to reality. How long will you be staying? And the thing is, these women who stamp their feet, and scream up and down about how they should be able to dress however they wish, without having anyone judge them, they themselves judge people based on how they look, all the time. Now, can you dress like a wh***? Sure. You can do whatever you wish. But if you want to be all bent and angry because people look at what you look like, and make conclusions based on that.... that's just going to make you bitter and angry. What's worse, the more you do it, the more you will prove them right. They will take your being angry and bent out of shape, as proof their judgement of you was correct. Again.... Welcome to reality. Will you be staying long? Either accept the fact that people are going to judge you, and that's not going to change, or change how you dress. Choice is yours. Same with me by the way. If I walk into work, looking like a slob, wearing sweat pants, and a beater shirt... chances are people are going to judge me based on that. I choose to dress a little better, and I get judged a little better. That's how that works.
have you been to a bar lately? a low cut shirt is the new ankle length skirt. it's the bikini top wearing women that are trouble.
Do you believe if the majority of people do a thing that it makes doing that thing right? I agree that the way a person is dressed effects the way people will treat them... but as we are all individuals some would treat the woman in a negative way while others would treat her in a positive way while still others may just not care either way... would you agree?
Um... depends. Sometimes I have done something dumb, and someone had the decency to alert me to my failing, so I could then fix them. There have been a few select times where I have done such for other people. I can't say that I have done so with a girl.... perhaps once. But only because she specifically asked my opinion. And there are tactful ways of explaining it. Sadly, the real duty is on the parents, and we have very few 'parents' anymore. Too many pathetic excuses for parents, who would rather be friends, and let their children grow up unaware, than teach them how to live properly.
I totally agree with you, Fugazi. It sounds exactly like the Tabilan telling women to wear burkas. Personally I don't much care for skirts or dresses, primarily for reasons of comfort. And no pockets! I grew up in the 60's & almost always wear jeans. Now that I am getting older I have weight issues, & jeans are simply the most comfortable & the most attractive look in my opinion. My husband thinks I have amazing legs, so I do wear dresses occasionally. I do find the idea that anyone thinks they can judge a person by their skirt length, hilarious.
It totally astounds me that such a dated, ridiculous idea as "dressing like a slut/whore", still exists in the 21st century. In my experience, there is little or no correlation between a woman's dress (provocative/liberal VS modest/conservative), & their sexual mores. Any man that naïve may be in for a rude awakening.
depends on what you mean by 'express' do I tell a thug he looks like a thug, and that's why I cross the street, just in case, so I don't have to walk near him? no. But opinion was 'expressed' do I tell a girl I'm interviewing, who's wearing a jean skirt, and flip-flops the reason she didn't get the job was because an equally qualified candidate who dressed professionally during the interview did? No, but lack of a job offer is expressing opinion do I call a girl a slut or a whore that is wearing coochie cutting shorts so tight you can see the outline even in a dark club..... no.... but never finding a guy that wants you for anything but sex.... that's expressing opinion. there are some that pick up on the subtle expressions, some that do not. You can go through life, thinking it shouldn't matter... which I would agree with, but if you go around life thinking it DOESN'T happen, or teaching your kids that you can dress anyway you want.... then you fail both yourself and them.
Most of what you said I agree with, but take exception with "how to live properly." Now in general when it comes to how one dresses, what is proper? Who gets to decide what is proper? Whose rights are more important... the one who dresses out of the ordinary or the one who takes offense of the fashion offender? Which is more important... conforming to societal dress codes... or being independent and dressing the way one likes regardless of if it does or does not fit within the guidelines of social standards?
Expressing being verbalizing to the fashion offender in either a tactful or rude way your objection. But in reading the above you have answered my question. Outside of Work, Church or places with dress codes, why should any of us care what others think about what we wear? To me that just seems strange to not dress how I like, but instead dress how I am expected to all so people will approve of me. From what I have been reading on the thread this seems to be a key difference in ideology between the two sides. Perhaps an argument for a new thread.
I am curious about other ways of dressing, that might seem unconventional. One poster mentioned always wearing a tie for a job interview. For some types of jobs (white collar) this is smart. I prefer suit & tie to dresses myself, but I have several time been asked if I was a lesbian, LOL. When I first moved to my current city, I tried to get a little part-time work, to deal with some debts leftover from my previous marriage. I only got 1 interview in about a year, granted I know several other people were also finding there wasn't much work available, but I was applying for the kind of fast food jobs who usually fire teens with no job experience. Because I spent 20+ years as a wife/mother, I don't have much work experience. A girl friend of mine suggested that perhaps it might have something to do with the fact that I don't wear a bra. This city is know as being fairly religious/conservative, but generally more tolerant than most Christian places, due to our also having a large Sikh population. Now of course, I know that no-one is going to tell me that this is why they don't want to hire me, since it's illegal in Canada to require different standards of dress for men & women (gotta love our Constitution!). So I really have no way of knowing if her suggestion is correct or not. And I have since resolved my debt situation, as well. So it is therefore moot, anyway. But it's definitely food for thought.
Your parents should teach you how to live properly. Again, the whole point of my post was, you can dress however you like. No one is talking about denying rights. And people who get 'offended' are just babies. They need to grow up. I never get offended, although sometimes I laugh at them. But the whole point was, yes you can do whatever you like. Just remember, there are consequences. You dress like a slob, and show up at an interview for a bank, they are not going to hire you. "What about my rights!" You have them. Doesn't change the fact that everyone else has the right to not want you around. You don't have a right a job. You don't have a right to be at other people's social events. You don't have the right to 'respectability'. These are things that must be earned, and if you refuse to do what is necessary to get those things.... then you won't have them. Now for some people, that's ok. And for them, they can have what they want. But if you think you are going to work your way up the corporate ladder, earn 6-figure incomes, and live the high life, while dressing like a trash... likely not going to happen. Again, the parents should be teaching this stuff, and they are failing miserably.
not my concern if you wanna dress like a thug, a slut, a professional..... If I disagree, I simply don't associate, just like someone with a body full of tattoos doesn't choose to hang out with me. because for women, it can be dangerous..... especially in college. Sure, she can wear a little black dress that barely covers her backside.... but there are guys out there that will see that as an opportunity, especially if she gets drunk and passes out. again, that's not justifying it... no, they shouldn't sexually assault a woman.... but that's a perfect world we don't live in. So, as I raise a daughter, I teach her, be safe. And that guys you attract while wearing skimpy clothes are not guys who are looking for relationships.
Perspective is an amazing thing as laughing at someone because how the look does not seem grown up to me. Respect is subjective... some will give one respect for dressing in the expected way while another will respect the one who dresses how the like rather than how they are expected to. If one likes to dress conservatively on their off time... more power to them... but if they dress conservatively just to please others by staying within the confines of social norms... well in my eyes they are giving up too much of themselves all to please others. This thread is not about employment as you have to follow dress codes at work. So I am only talking about how we dress on our off time. To teach our children to be something that they are not all so people will like them is wrong IMO. Teaching our children to think for themselves, to appreciate diversity and to have tolerance for that which is different is the way to raise a child IMO.
