Kinzinger Introduces Use of Force Resolution against Russia

The dividing line between a NATO country and a non NATO country is pretty wide. I'm not sure why you war guys think, first Ukraine, then Paris, London, and Washington.

Nope.

But in discussing this I realize that we're coming from differing perspectives on the status and abilities of the US as a world power. You (and others like you) think of the United States as a hyperpower, like it appeared to be in the early 90's. I think the US is a has been power, that's wrecked it's industrial base, military, and is too divided to unite on anything. We're more like Britain right before Suez. We think we're a world power until right before we have to prove it.

On the other hand, you are one of the few people I've come across who is actually pro nuclear war. I'm not sure if you have opinions that are worth considering.

 

Sorry I don't understand what you're talking about.

 

It's not 1938, it's 1914.

Ukraine is not a member of NATO.

 

You act like Russia is giving us a choice. We do not have the option to let them perfect the use of Nukes.

 

OK?

 

We seem to have a pretty big choice. I'm not clear in how exactly Russia is robbing us of that.

 

Im not pro-nuclear war. I just see no reason to fear it, or to agree with everyone who claims that it would literally destroy the world. Why fear something that is physically impossible? And why should we allow others to use the threat of nuclear weapons as a permission to conduct wars of aggression against smaller states?
As for Pootins ambitions - he is not hiding them. He stated such objective numerous times over the course of 20 years. The war in Ukraine was a surprise only to those who shut their ears and screamed “blah blah” as loud as they could.
Russia attacking Poland and Baltics is regularly discussed in Russian news media. Nuking the UK and the U.S. is openly discussed too. That’s in the news under a dictatorial regime where they can’t even call the war in Ukraine a “war”. Russian’s foreign ministry just accused Israel of supporting Nazis. If you think Russia invading a nato country is crazy - wasn’t it crazy to invade a foreign country with expectations to be met by locals with flowers and hugs? Isn’t it crazy to accuse entire country of being a nazi state as a pretext for the invasion? Isn’t it crazy to accuse that country of developing biological weapons that target “Russian genotype”? How do you know they will do one crazy thing but not the other?

 

That got a chuckle.

He's a mosquito, and unless Russia screws up massively, we won't get directly involved.

Now, about the other part, people are still human. We thought that Russia was going to grind Ukraine into dust. Mariupol repeated a couple dozen times.

But the weird mix of Russian incompetence, Ukrainian effectiveness, and massive amounts of donated weapons is doing better than we expected, a lot better.

So, in my completely unhumble opinion, what you are seeing is a mix of relief and revenge. You can ignore the mosquito, this is prob the way things will go for a year, or more. Subject to change without notice, of course. This keeps surprising me, and I exepct we haven't seen the last of the surprises.

 

That only reveals that you are not very perceptive.

 

That did not answer my question.
In your opinion, is Russia doing enough to make sure the world does not get involved?

 

Looks autistic to me. Perhaps he and Greta can do a vaudeville act. Both think they are morally superior. Might be good for laughs.


Adam is a great Merican!

 

You are a class act! Intellectually out of your depth in a debate forum as we just saw here, but a class act!

 

Careful Mitt might call your speech treasonous.

 

I always thought so.

 

Don't call me politically incorrect I work with retards.

 

Kinzinger should prove his prove his point, by sending his own sons, grandsons and daughters to fight.

 

That may be the crux of the problem.

 

How am I out of my depth? You want to have a hot war with Russia? I do not. I want this damn war to end but your heroes want to escalate. They hate this country with a passion but they love Ukraine and want to be loved by white Europe. I'm tired of these morons acting all tough and brave with somebody else's kids. I'm tired of idiots talking as if we own other countries and need to send people to die for them.

No more idiot wars!

I do not care what party you are from if you support idiot needless wars I'm going to bash you. That includes your republican heroes like Bush, Cheney Romney and Kingzinger.

If Adam the autistic did not hate Trump you would hate him.

 

This from the Guardian before Febuary. It's what Kinzinger wants Americans to die for. I wonder why?

https://apis.mail.aol.com/ws/v3/mai...webmail&downloadWhenThumbnailFails=true&pid=2

OUR POLITICAL ELITE

Ring around the rosy,
with pockets full of poesies.​

But before we're found
let's spin it around,​

and let the world
come tumbling down.

- Jeannette​

 

Link from aol.com mailbox.



Why am I not surprised?

 

A declaration by Congress that we are at war or that war is impending is a declaration of war.

 

Still, if ways can be found to stall until Putin is gone, it could be for the best.

 

So far the war in Ukraine is another proxy war. IMO, we will now have to give Ukraine the means to actually defeat Russia to avoid another world war.

IMO, forcing the surrender of the Russian invasion force attacking Kyiv early on was the only path to a quick negotiated end to this war.

 

I will be anti-nuclear war until WMDs are used by Russia, and you may be right about the deterioration of the US military, but we now know that Russia's conventional military has become obsolete and very ineffective.

Even Ukraine, alone, with its relatively small military, could have easily and decisively defeated the initial invasion force with the right weapons.

Russia still has its nukes to deter an invasion of Russia. Using them to conquer or hold Ukraine would sacrifice their use as a deterrent to invasion.
When Putin or whoever else may be in charge in Russia figures that out they will get out of Ukraine with what they have left fast -- if they can.

 

This really is a horrible mess, and I can understand the temptation to just stall, but the Ukrainians are pulling all the weight for us.

How many soldiers and civilians should we ask them to sacrifice so we can wait for Putin die or get woke?