Lesbian couple share Navy's 'first kiss' homecoming honors

It is all lovely and innocent now. But what about when it is two men?

 

A little more of this and a lot less war!

Very nice.

 

Very well said! I think that sums up the issue and hits the nail on the head.

 

Apply pressure at what cost? Do we reduce combat effectiveness? Can we afford this diversion while we have tens of thousands of men and women in harms way?

 

There are hundreds of reasons. Consider how vastly different military life is from the civilain side.

 

Actually, you could not be kicked out for being at a Gay Pride Parade. Hell, I have watched 1 or 2 of them myself over the years.

However, you could be kicked out for participating in a Gay Pride Parade. Especially as many have been over the years for being stupid enough to either wear their uniform, or to carry a sign identifying themselves as members of the military.

Doing that is simply stupid, and if an idiot does something like that, they deserve to be kicked right out of the military, without hesitation.

 

Good news.
The military reports that your fears are unfounded.

 

I couldn't disagree more, and now the law is on my side, as it always should have been.
Why shouldn't someone be proud of being gay and a soldier, and all at the same time?

 

What I think I find most funny in all of these debates whenever they come up is that you have people screaming for the "right" to serve in the military.

But how many of these people would ever exercise this right if given the chance?

A right that is not used is worthless. And I have yet to see large numbers of homosexuals walking into recruiting stations, begging to be allowed to sign up.

And the other side here are totally reactionary. They have no concept what the military is like, just a mind full of stupid stereotypes. They have no facts, just mistaken beliefs that will never be changed because they do not want to listen to the truth.

And worst of all, they seem to act like homosexuals have absolutely no control over their sexuality. And I do say this as "being gay" or not, but how they show affection.

We have had mention many times that there are claims people have been kicked out for holding hands. Got proof of that? If you can't prove it, it does not belong here. Give us an example, or ****. We have had claims that people were kicked out for being at a Gay Pride Parade. Well, show us that they were simply at the parade and kicked out, or ****.

I know that one side of this argument seems to be doing the gay community an incredible disservice, and is insulting all of them. Because it seems to imply that they are totally unable to restrain themselves and show any self-control. They see each other, and they just have to kiss and carry on like drunk 16 year olds at a make-out party. And personally, I find that attitude rather offensive, because I do believe that most gays have more self-control then that.

I know that I can be around my wife, and not have this irresistable urge to hug and kiss her in public. I have this thing called self-restraint, and it allows me to hold myself in check until I am at an appropriate time and place.

Oh, and yesterday I brought this up to several people in my unit. One of them was an old Warrent Officer (younger then me, but older then most I work with). And he told me something I did not realize, but makes a lot of sense.

Do you know how most homosexuals in the military were discovered?

VD.

That's right. Because if you show up with a venereal disease, you are required by law to list everybody you have had sex with. Now the names of the people you have sex with fall under the relm of Medical Privacy. But the fact that Private Jones and Specialist Markus both came down with Gonorrhea in the same week may cause people to start looking.

Not in trying to find "the queers", but because things like this fall under the aspect of protecting the members of the military. These 2 individuals may be lovers. But they may also have dated the same girl, visited the same strip club, been consorting with prostitutes, or a dozen other things. And their chain of command is going to want to know where they got the disease, so they can try and stop any others from getting it.

And if the same two continue to come down with the same diseases over and over again, well that will start it's own investigation all by itself. Because repeated VD infections of a member of the military can be punished under Article 115, Malingering. They can also be punished under Article 134, classified as "Self-injury without intent as to avoid service".

 

No, the law is not on your side. You have no concept of how the military is run and operated, do you?

Are you aware that all members of the military operate under some very strict legal guidelines, that limits us in what we can and can not do?

For example, we can't run for public office. Period. Not even city dog catcher. Because there are specific laws that prohibit us from taking part of the political system.

I can go to a Democratic Fund Raiser. In Civilian clothes. If I wear my uniform, I can and will be punished.

I can sit on the sidewalk and watch the Occupy fools. I can even march to a bridge with them. But if I am wearing a uniform (or piece of a uniform), or holding a sign stating I am a member of the military, I can and should be punished.

I can go to a Tea Party Rally. And I can even give an interview to a member of the press. But if I identify myself as a member of the military, I can and will be punished.

Heck, I can't even write a letter to the editor stating that I think a war is wrong and we should not be involved. Because that is against several military policies. And that was started by President Clinton BTW.

That is why I am often very careful on what I say in here. I offer opinions and clarifications and specifics, but normally do not actually say what my true beliefs on subjects are. I simply give out information, and try to get people to understand both sides of an issue.

But I can tell you this. If you went to my 5 best friends and asked "Is Mushrom a homophobe?", they would absolutely lagh themselves sick. Because you do not know me. You do not know my beliefs. You only know that I tell you that you are wrong, and do not like it.

 

So if a military person marches in a Memorial Day parade, they are subject to discipline? That's awful! Not doubting you for a second, but what a shame.

A bit thin skinned, aren't you? Why so upset?

 

Do you know the irony of these two paragraphs?
It is your stereotyping of gay people that makes you think you would recognize if a great number of them were walking into recruiting stations.

 

Memorial Day Parades are non-political. As are Veteran's Day Parades. These do not celebrate anything but the service member's participation in the armed forces.

http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/3892523/

This is nothing new, it is something I think everybody is told about in boot camp.

But please, doubt me. Do some research and find out what the members of the military are and are not allowed to do. Do not just make it up, do not just take my word for it. Look it up for yourself, research it, learn something new.

This is the difference between knowledge and opinion. I see some in here throwing out a lot of opinion, with very little knowledge. I urge all of you to not just use opinion, but to use knowledge.

 

What would be the difference?

 

Yes and those reasons start with ignorance, homophobia, bigotry and religion. Beyond that there is no problem.
People decide to join the military and if they can't deal with the differences they should not join. It does not matter how different life is they all decided to sign on.

 

And there you go once again, trying to paint me as something I am not.

I have now served in the military in 4 different decades. And do you want to know the difference?

Not a lot. Of course, I also worked in the Corporate world, and did not see many changes there either. Both Government (which includes the military)and Corporate employment should be completely asexual. I have believed that for as long as I can remember, because such things should not matter. No more then a person's race or religion should matter.

But you seem to have a persecution complex, and that is fine. But if you feel so strongly about Gay rights in the military, then I urge you and anybody else who feels that way to run out and join the military.

If people think that the military discriminates, then join the military. Find out if it really does or not. Make an informed decision. And show the world and everybody else that homosexuals can make a meaningfull contribution to the service.

Oh, and do not confuse joking that we all do with "discrimination". If you listen to most of our language, you would swear that 3/4 of us are gay. And our rough language and phrases are almost always intended as a joke. Because if you do not have thick skin, you have no reason to even consider joining the military. If you are a little wimp that takes everything personally, or the angry type that takes offense at every little slight and wants to lash out, please go elsewhere. Your service is not wanted or needed.

 

I said heterosexuals could go to pride parades and survive the scrutiny afterward. If you had attended as a gay couple you could have be kicked out.

Mayors of cities attend pride parades and walk in them. They are not all gay.

 

Gays make up 3% of the population of the planet. The percentage in the military would be about the same. So you will not see them flooding into recruiting stations.

 

But no military at Easter?

I suggest you are doing the same thing, acting with very little knowledge, when assuming you would be able to identify all the gay people walking into recruiting stations.
I appreciate being corrected regarding military regs, and I am not arguing with you. Your declaration of your neutrality seems a bit overstated, though, based on the totality of your posts.

But I've been wrong before, right?

 

Any differences you experience in military life are by choice. So best not to (*)(*)(*)(*)(*) about the choice you made.

 

DADT was discriminatory. You really have this thing for thick skin. You say someones service is not wanted or needed and neither is your service. It doesn't take much to kill over 104000 civilians without feeling guilt. I'm sure there are serial killers that would love the opportunity to do that without any penalty.

 

You may not see much difference, but I guarantee you the gay servicepeople see an enormous difference. Ask them.
The officer with a picture of his wife on his desk would be thrown out of the military in the past if that spouse had been same sex. If wearing a wedding ring led to a conversation about married life and you started talking about your husband, you could have been kicked out. If someone casually mentioned that they saw you out at the movies with your boyfriend last night, you could be kicked out. These are big changes for people on the receiving end of such, as you call it, persecution. Hundreds of people a year lost their jobs, and for some, their careers. For what?
Now they won't.
I think it's great.
These, too, are facts. They have been brought up before in response to a previous post, but were not commented on.

 

How do you attend "as a gay couple"?

To give an idea, Army Regulation 670-1 prohibits "Public Displays of Affection". And how would you determine that 2 people are a "couple"? Are they standing near each other? Arm in arm? Like I keep seeing, here is where somebody is claiming they are giving an example, yet not giving one. So kindly, where is the case where this is what happened, and they were kicked out for it?

They are also not members of the military. We can't march in a Gay Pride parade. We can't be active participants in an Occupy rally. We can't be organizers of a Tea Party rally.

When you join the military, you voluntarily give up a lot of your rights of free expression. You seem to act like it is only homosexual's that are "having their rights violated". No, it is an agreement we all agreed to.

So yea, a mayor can march in a Gay Pride Parade. So what? I can't run for mayor. You do not hear me screaming that my rights are being violated, do you?

The idea that members of the military can't participate in these types of activities is to prevent the impression that the military itself is participating in the political process. We are a Representative Republic, and the military should not participate in partaisan or party political rallys, organizations, or speaking out either in favor or opposing them.

 

Actually, it is not. And if you looked at my posting history, you will see that it has been consistant in this for years. When we started talking about the DADT repeal here several years ago, I was like "So what? Sexuality does not belong in the military, so it should not matter. Repeal it."

FYI, when I moved from LA to Alabama years ago, I moved in with a friend of mine. And her girlfriend. And when my best friend moved from LA the next year, he went back eventually because he missed his boyfriend.

And my partner in a computer store I ran 15 years ago, I did not care that he way gay one little bit. My own sexuality? It is irrelevant. That is my own personal affair, and as long as I do not do anything that could get me in trouble, it is nobodys business but my own.

I do not care what a person's sexuality is. I do not want to know what it is. It is not their business what mine is, and it is not my business what theirs is. Homosexuals do not threaten me, they do not bother me.

However, I am sick to death of people trying to shove their sexuality into my face. And when some guy tries to tell me about his "amazing weekend" with the hot blonde girl he met at the club, I tell him to stop talking to me about it, because I do not want to know. It is none of my business, and not appropriate in a work environment.

 

When you can show an example of a married man being kicked out of the military for holding hands with his wife at a military ball, then you will have shown the neutrality of the former regulations.
Repeal is a good thing. Gay Americans are violating no law by being who they are. Now they are violating no military regulation either.