For the sake of simple discussion and no arguments, let us assume that the 'Bible' is 100% true, error free, non contradictory, is the Word of God as was given by inspiration to men of old, cannot be refuted. Under those conditions, what would be the final habitation of both non-theists and Theists? Please provide physical proof through your own words and by your own belief. As for my answer: The Theists will spend eternity in the presence of God, singing praises unto God: The non-theists would be NOT in the presence of God for eternity.
Of course it does, however I am not looking for what the 'Bible' says about it. I am looking for the beliefs of the readers pertaining to the eternal place of Theists and non-theists.
But you're assuming the bible to be true. If that is the case why not just take what the bible says to answer your question?
That greatest motivator of scientists (not saying that I am a scientist)...... curiosity. Curiosity as to how people think about that subject without leaning on the scripts pertaining to the 'Bible' or other Holy scripts. BTW: scientists also assume that 'objective reality' exists.
Well the back bone of science is objectivity. If I had to pick I would say that death for me is like what my experience of the last billions of years has been. It wasn't so bad before and I don't think it will be so bad again.
Well thank you for that straight forward answer. Well objectivity being defined as "external reality", would imply an 'internal reality' ... can you observe or experience that 'external reality' without the use of that 'internal reality'? Which one is 'real' ... they both are based on 'reality' whose root word is 'real'?
I'm confused. Are you asking us to assume that the Bible is true or are you asking us what we believe? Also, do you believe that all theists go to heaven, or just some? Your current language makes it sound like you believe all of them are, but that seems doubtful. If the Bible is correct, even Satan is a theist. Personally, heaven sounds like psychological torture to me. I don't mean the singing and praising God part, I'm talking about the part where I've been placed in "paradise" while constantly wrestling with the fact that some of those I have loved most in the world are being tortured in hell. If hell exists, there is no heaven for me. I could never be happy there. Oblivion would be preferable.
Both. All (based on the criteria set forth in the OP). Well again, thank you for that straight forward answer.
Okay, as a non-believer, this is a long shot for me, but I'll try. If the Bible is 100% accurate, my guess is that non-believers will cease to exist and that believers will exist for a time in some peaceful state until the whole thing happens again. I mean, if Lucifer, an angel, could fall, then so could anyone else in heaven. So, the believers would then incarnate back on earth and it would recycle. After all - the entity of John the Baptist was supposed to have come back, and if that's possible, it's possible for anyone. I can't imagine that anyone would want to sing praises for all of eternity - millions upon millions upon billions upon billions of years, so they'd probably be very happy to fall and be mortals again.
if the Abrahamic myths were true, I'd assume that vegan hippies, socialists, humanitarians, environmentalists, anti-war protesters, equal rights activists, medical volunteers in third world countries, greenpeace staffers, and other similarly inclined 'carers' would gain automatic entry to heaven. of course, heaven would be far more interesting than the traditional description, because jesus would be in charge - and we all know jesus was a socialist, egalitarian peacenik with a beard and long hair. we can extrapolate from this that he probably dug music, and we know he liked wine and chilling with his gang, so yeah. hell would be reserved for the greedy, the lazy, the bloody minded, the glutton, the bigoted, the prejudiced, the idolater, and the abuser of our home (planet). but here's the catch .... hell would be as per heaven. you see the trick? nice
I would still be a non-theist. I have no interest in singing praises to anyone - ever. If that means I burn - so be it.
If we have to assume the bible is true, then there is no second part to the question. If it is true you already have the second part of the question because you stated you have to assume the bible is 100% true.
There is still plenty of room for interpretation of the Bible, I don't think it is exhaustive enough to answer that question unambiguously.
On the contrary. Even if (under the requirements of the OP) the 'Bible' is true, does not mean that one cannot have and hold his/her own personal beliefs pertaining to those matters contained in the 'Bible'. The 'Bible' only represents a set of views that have been accepted by a large number of people throughout history, but that in itself does not preclude them from having their opinions and other beliefs.
Not if the rule is to assume it is 100% true. 100% true means 100% true. What does the Bible say about getting into heaven if you don't accept God? Exactly.
If consciousness is the origin of reality, then the theists would go to eternal bliss, and be aware of it, and the atheists would go into oblivion. That is, if you believe in eternal bliss after the body dies, that is what you will get. If you do not believe in it, you will get exactly what your beliefs are. And for atheists, that is of course the end of their conscious awareness. You get what you believe. I think that would be a really fair way for a creator to construct it. All would get what they believe in. Of course, this would mean that muslims to who killing infidels would indeed get a harem full of beautiful young virgins to enjoy for all of eternity. I guess we should be careful in what we allow ourselves to believe? LOL
I'll answer from this perspective: Assuming God exists, I still have the choice of whether or not to worship Him. If God is such an (*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*) that heaven is only for people who believe in him, regardless of whatever else they do, then screw Him; he's not worth worshipping. But that depends on what Heaven is, and what the alternative is. Technically, Heaven means "in the presence of God". So really, all the Heaven bit is saying is that if you believe in God, you will spend eternity with Him, and if you don't, you won't. Looked at that way, I say "Meh." If the alternative to Heaven is some afterlife that simply lacks God, big deal. The stakes are low, and being excluded is no better or worse than being denied membership in some resort somewhere. But if it's the eternal torment bit, or "eternal life vs. nonexistence", then screw Him. Decent people should get into Heaven regardless of their religious belief. Bad people should be denied Heaven regardless of their religious belief.
I know what 100% means and I also know what the 'Bible' says. The 'Bible' also says that many are called but few are chosen.... IF for example either you or I were one of those that were not called, then what is your belief about not being called? Or better yet: What are your feelings about not being called?
Please answer my question. What does the Bible say about getting into heaven if you don't accept God? Exactly.
You ask a question like that when you have been in the fray long enough to know what the 'Bible' says about it. What sort of admission are you looking for that will take this thread off topic?
impossible to really know - it depends on your interpretation of the bible, and as we all know, the bible can be interpreted in countless ways. In the end, according to the arguments of most religious people, god tends to work in mysterious ways - and it seems often that the ways of god are so mysterious that no one really knows what god really thinks, and so no one has any clue what god will do to them after they die. People try to use the bible as a guide, but the bible has been interpreted and re-interpreted so many times throughout history, that it's essentially meaningless at this point. You may goto heaven, you may not, you may cease to exist, who knows? It's all up to god, and god works in mysterious unpredictable ways, right? He can do whatever he wants. So no one can really say with any certainty. One day, he may say "screw it, everyone goes to hell!" He once condemned the whole world after Noah's flood, so there's nothing to stop him from doing it again. He can do whatever he wants - after all, he's god.
