Let's start fresh. Creation vs. Evolution models.

So, a person who doesn't believe in the traditional gods, cannot be an atheist? You can believe in the possibility of some sort of guiding intelligent information, that isn't a god as conceived by religion, and not be an atheist? Would that be a AINO, an Atheist in name only. You have turned your beliefs into nothing more than a political ideology sir.

The math involved in the rise of life and then proceeding as dictated by the theory you like, has an improbability of zero, in the opinion of many math guys. But of course evolutionists have not actually done the math, nor has mathmaticians. Guess why? The complexity involved makes it impossible. If the math is impossible due to the complexity, this makes many think that evolution as layed out is just as impossible.

The theory of evolution is just another story. With a few facts, and loads of creative conjecture. Strictly hard materialism, the true faith of the true believers. A story. Quite a bit more sophisticated when compared to the religious myths, but a story nonetheless. Until they recognize an intelligent field was and is involved.

 

Do you think these math guys understand biology enough to assign meaningful odds?

Maybe the math is impossible because they just don't know what the variables are. Can you tell me what the odds are of guessing the number I'm thinking of?

What exactly do you think the Theory of Evolution says?

 

A DIAMOND is basically Pure Carbon....but that Diamond was NOT a Human Ancestor as not everything that has or is Carbon would be a Human Ancestor.

In your attempt to sound intelligent you rather made yourself sound uneducated.

AboveAlpha

 

Nice analogy specific to how ROCK CRYSTALS GROW!! LOL!!

But I know what you are saying and yes...this is a very simple and easy enough analogy for extremely ingorant to reality Ultra Religious Zealots to understand.

AboveAlpha

 

[h=2]ob·fus·cate[/h] verb \ˈäb-fə-ˌskāt; äb-ˈfəs-ˌkāt, əb-\: to make (something) more difficult to understand

God is omniscient. Your turn, where did information come from?

 

Information is omnipresent. See how easy that was?

 

Now prove your position.

 

Unfamiliar with stardust?

http://www.physics.org/article-questions.asp?id=52

 

Can you name anything that doesn't have information?

http://cm.bell-labs.com/cm/ms/what/shannonday/shannon1948.pdf

 

I wasn't talking about the Stardust Coment but now that you have brought it up.....do you know up to what Relative Atomic Mass Element starting at Hydrogen that is created in all stars via Stellar Fusion?

And do you know WHY....all heavier Elements need a Supernova Explosion to be produced?

AboveAlpha

 

Why should he....YOU made a proposition and did absolutely nothing to "PROVE" it, he showed you how easy and silly it is to do so.

 

You know...it's one thing when a member might post something that is wrong as everyone at some time will do this and those members that might be corrected by others are usually greatful...and I certainly would be if I posted something wrong and was informed it was wrong as I would hate to continue posting incorrect data.

It is ANOTHER THING ALL TOGETHER....when a member posts something that is incorrect or partially incorrect and then when another member attempts to show them their error....the member posting false data starts getting....P!$$ED OFF AND UPITTY....and attempts to hide their error or refuses to aknowledge the error or in those cases where we are all dealing with a MORON......lies and tries to say that everyone else is wrong and they are right....and do all that without EVER providing a bit of evidence.

Sad...really.

AboveAlpha

 

Just offhand I'd say that tower isn't made outa blocks held together by absolutely nothing.

How about you, Brainiac?

Crappy reading comprehension alert.

I'll bet you check under your bed every night to make sure God isn't there.

 

That information was imputed by an intelligent human, where does the first living cell get it's information?

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You haven't been following along. Get caught up before jumping it next time.

 

For your viewing pleasure:

[video=youtube_share;yZLzLVAUJiU]http://youtu.be/yZLzLVAUJiU[/video]

 

Just when we all thought it couldn't get any Creepier......

AboveAlpha....Is it just me or does this guy make you feel like he would like to get back to Burning Witches??

 

I think I need to put this in my signature. IT IS IN THE FOSSIL RECORD.

To answer your question about matter, energy and the Big Bang: The previous universe after its Big Crunch. The collision of two branes. The black hole that contains the universe. Nothing at all, the universe spontaneously erupted into existence. No one know or will ever know. There take your pick, but the default it not "God did it".

 

First of all, tall and skinny are relative terms. Secondly I said the blocks were different shapes, comparing them to Tetris. Interlocking blocks can be very strong. Thirdly, this was a mental exercise, but I see it may have been too much of some.

Nice of you to contribute to the debate.

 

The same place it gets matter and energy, from the environment around it. What part of omnipresent did you not understand?

 

There is no such thing as "a fossil record". There are fossils, but the ONLY thing science can prove is an organism lived, died and was buried rapidly.

Where did the the matter and energy come from to make a Big Crunch? How does anyone KNOW there was such an event? Will you agree the Big Bang, Crunch, Bang, Crunch, Bang is all someone's sci-fi tale with zero evidence to support it and certainly no one ever saw the event?

If there was such a thing as a Big Bang, science would predict that all the matter would be evenly spaced around the universe. Is that what science finds?

 

Would you claim that the president's heads on Mt. Rushmore could have been carved by wind and erosion? If you found a rusted pocket watch in the earth while digging for potatoes, would you claim it was a natural combination of elements in the soil? A living cell is a billion times more complex than either of those two examples, yet you believe a living cell was formed by chance, do you understand how ignorant that sounds to a logical thinking person? What's next? Blood-letting? Maybe the ACA will be paying for your witch doctor to toss some bones and pebbles at your hospital bedside to cure your heart-attack.

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SO nature IS your God? So far you claimed your god Nature is omniscient and omnipotent?

 

An example of evolution taking place right now is in the sea slug which is evolving to get all of its nutrients from the sun.

 

A endogenous retrovirus also is responsible for building the uterus allowing species to birth their young. This DNA would be in all species where females have a uterus. This portion of the DNA does not prove these species are related. The retrovirus could have infected may species at the same time of its origin.

 

What I find interesting about Genesis is there is no mention of the creation of water. The story begins with "God" above the dark oceans when God decided to create life. To accept science and religion beliefs one would have to admit that their "God" cannot create perfect creatures of life since we are destine to die. Perfection is not one of "God' attributes.

 

The label 'God' implies an intelligent agent, which is a property I definitely don't attribute to Nature. So no, Nature is not my God, neither is it omniscient or omnipotent. It does have one clear advantage over your God though, it can be observed and explained.