Libs, it's time to start thinking for yourself. They are brain washing you.

I'm calling you out now.

 

Well obviously Obama doesn't. He keeps talking about the low wages companies pay. He and all our previous Presidents knew it would happen. It was part of the plan with Free Trade and NAFTA. But to listen to Liberals, it is all about corporate greed and nothing else.

 

I'll repeat what both of us said.

Welll sir, I'm not the kind of American like YOU and many of my fellow Republicans that would boycott GM to help them go out of business just because I'm pissed at Obama for bailing them out and hate the union. I think more of American jobs, our largest industry and my country to put politics before the welfare of my country.

 

And your government just sold the 3rd largest American automaker to Fiat. Talking about welfare of your country. Too funny. As if they give a (*)(*)(*)(*) about what Marine1thetroll thinks.

 

This is because it is going to be an election talking point for 2014.
But how the loss of jobs and the shrinking of wages was to be handled wasn't discussed back in the 90s.
Just that it was going to happen.

 

Yes and you and many others would have put GM out of business just to get back at Obama and the unions. What kind of an American would do that? You were ready to sell your country out.

- - - Updated - - -

I agree.

 

I would like to see GM to go out of business not because of Obama but because of its incompetent management and greedy union. What kind of American would want to use American taxpayers money to protect people like that? It's your kind of American, NOT me.

 

Your an, no I can't say that on this board. But you make me ashamed I'm a Republican. Even if I'm a (*)(*)(*)(*) poor one.

 

You realize that historically the Republican party was ALWAYS the party of free trade. The Democrats had strong union support and tended to oppose free trade agreements. That all changed when the neoliberal revolution swept up both parties and the Democrats took on the old Republican economic platform, and Republicans were forced even further to the right, but that was always the case in the past. Both parties are complicit. Modern American Democrats are stupid for expecting a government which is complicit in so much of what they oppose, to solve those problems. However, the Republican party is just as bad if not worse.

PS. China does something similar to what the Japanese did, but they don't explicitly use policies opposed to free trade. Instead of using tariffs and import bans, they use currency manipulation which protects their manufacturing base without explicitly undermining any free trade agreement.

 

You should be. No decent American would think like you do and I'm glad no one shares your extreme hate-filled and anti-foreigners agenda.

 

People who say unions are greedy but defend corporations, who are infinitely more greedy, exemplify all that is bad, wrong, and immoral in this country!!

 

The price of an item at the store is different in each country. A $5 item might also be $10 in another country, or $1.

I'm talking about Purchasing power parity.

Now, I can't link you to this, but I have heard through documentaries and TV specials about how international temp workers from the USA, who make a seasonal income then return home, make a higher wage than their coworkers coming from poorer nations. The pay scale is based on the cost of living in the home country of the worker.

The wages of their workers depends on the prices in the home market. The only reason a costlier market can exist is because wages are high enough to afford the cost of living in the nation.

 

One big reason we started up Nafta and Free Trade was Europe forming the European union and forming a trading block between them. We also felt we needed to do the same. But Europe was trading between like countries. Their wages weren't that much different from each other and there wasn't that much worry of nations deserting their country to go to another European country. We started with Canada, which was also close to us in wages. But when we took in Mexico, South America, India and China. There wages were way off from ours. We got free trade alright, but the way they wrote up the treaties, we sure didn't get fair trade. We came out on the short end of the stick.

I agree with you on China.

 

And there are people who is screaming "corporations" are bad yet they're the same people that would support government to bail out bad businesses at everyone else expenses. That's a new normal in this country.

 

Opposing trade is silly I agree. Imagining Americans are more worthy of jobs is bad I agree. However, we do not practice true free trade policies. We protect high skilled labor. We protect corporations. We simply don't protect our own manufacturing base. We don't allow the free movement of labor. We have a policy which neither endorses free trade wholly nor rejects it wholly. Instead the government chooses winners. That is not good.

We also do not partner with countries whose trade practices are fair. China manipulates their currency to ensure their goods are cheaper on the American market.

 

Being the kind of person I am that will smash both Parties if I think they are wrong, I don't expect many friends on this board. But at least they need to know I will always put my country first before Party and I don't lie. If they don't like what I say, tough, I could care less. I call it the way I see it.

 

I don't think you smash anything. The only thing that you smash on daily basis is your own anti-free trade bs. I'm quite amused of the efforts you're putting into it and I have yet to see you convince one person to share your ideology. Give it a rest already.

 

Only idiots!! Bailing out corporations for failing is an absurd policy. Liberals complain (I am on the left, but abhor mainstream American liberals) about the risks wall street takes. However, government creates the conditions of possibility for that risk taking. Banks who know a bad investment will lead to bankruptcy will be far more careful, even if the reward on their risk may be great. However, when a business knows they will be bailed out no matter what they do, they have no incentive to behave responsibly. It is the great failure of modern American capitalism and really capitalism in general. Government is coopted by capitalists and use governmental power to protect and promote their interests. It is why both modern parties are such utter failures. One imagines government is the solution to the problems of capitalism. The other imagines capitalism is the solution to the problem of government. When in reality they are interconnected and wholly dependent on one another, their interests are aligned, and they equally share the burden for the failures of our system.

 

Then they should have put more thought in writing up those trade treaties. I have nothing against FAIR Trade. No trade is free. There are always restrictions.

Got to go. Wife coming home and I need to get supper going.

 

Government policy always picking winners and losers. I don't deny that, and it's tougher when you're on the losing side.

As far as currency manipulation, no one is capable to manipulate the currency market like the US Federal Reserve, and they've been doing just that since 2008.

 

I cannot argue with what you said about politicians here because I agree with it. On the other hand, you are ignoring the power that our business leaders wield in the realm of politics. The wealth and power that they have gives them a disportionately large voice. Through various means, they control the media and the message. Plus, there is no shortage of unscrupulous power mongers who would be willing to do the business leader's dirty work. Those power mongers are the ones that get supported by the political action committees, 527 organizations, the biased media, and so on. Ethical politicians are eventually weakened to the point that they become ineffective. We, the people, do not have a voice in politics any more.

For a group that preaches personal responsibility and accountability for one's actions, conservatives do a lot making sure that the business leaders are not held accountable for the actions of their companies (unless of course that business leader supports the wrong politicians). Business leaders share some responsibility. The profit motive does not grant a "get out of jail free" card for their actions. It is fair to criticize them.

Part of the problem is that the biased media routinely misinforms, misdirects, and distracts the population at large to make sure that the majority of Americans have no clue. Over the last couple of decades, it has become increasingly more difficult to separate the wheat from the chaff.

 

But go a step further. Why aren't Americans willing to pay more for American made? It's because they can't. We've had an entire working class with fewer spendable dollars year after year because their wages have been forced down. Profits didn't suffer. Wages did. We found ourselves with so many jobs sent out of the country that we had an oversupply of workers, along with women joining the workforce in huge numbers. So more workers, fewer jobs = lower wages because our companies did what they're supposed to do, which is seek profit wherever possible. So they hit the consumer through shipping jobs out, which in turn hurt their own ability to sell what those new foreign employees were making because fewer people could afford to buy them in the US. It's a CEO's obligation to maximize profits, but we now are seeing what happens when the last remaining unit of costs has to be cut (wages/benefits) to sustain or increase profits. We've done a wonderful job of gaining efficiency and productivity, we've made our logistics chains incredibly efficient, and the only cost left to really recover anything was wages/benefits. It was a natural progression, but now there's no more blood to squeeze from the turnip except to continue to chip away at wages, and they've done that for 30+ years.

The end result is the search for continued profits against cheap labor is a horrible economy where wages are typically higher. There's no answer, but corporations are reaping the results of their own efforts to sustain profits and as consumers tap every last ounce of credit there will be little left to procure anything other than necessary expenses as the working class continues to lose ground. I just don't know how you solve it because the finger points in too many directions and is largely just a part of capitalism with global competition. But we have to keep the working (spending) class making enough to sustain demand or the whole thing eventually crumbles.

 

Some things you can't, many others you can if you only look and compare. Colgate puts out one brand of tooth paste made in Mexico. Crest puts out the same kind made in the US. Same price. The fish food I was buying when I had tropical fish was made in Germany. I later found the same kind made in the US, again same price. Hersey candy is making some of their candy in Mexico, others in the US, same price. There is a automatic dish washing detergent put out made in Poland. Another made in the US for a few cents more. We do make stuff in this country priced the same and some not that far off. They have to keep prices close or they can't compete. But Americans have to be more observant when they shop to even look where it's made and most don't give it a second thought.

When Whirlpool closed those three plants and laid over 5000 people off. It didn't just effect Whirlpool. It effected the steel company who supplied that steel. The many parts makers.It effected the truck drivers who delivered those machines. The restaurants that fed those employees. It effected the grocery and furniture stores. Their tax dollars gave police and firemen a job. Even office workers working for that city. Those 5,000 employees aren't going to be buying cars anymore. Every factory we close effects thousands more people not even affiliated to that company. That sir is why we don't have jobs. Why the ones that take their place won't pay like the ones we lost.

I really shouldn't care like I do. I'm retired and have my Social Security and a small pension. It's no skin off my nose if the guy down the street can't find a job or it pays so damn little. But I do. I want things to get better, but as long as others don't care because it doesn't effect them at the moment, things will only get worse. Somewhere down the line that factory in the next state will effect you or someone else.

I bought a Maytag washer and dryer a few years ago. They were about $80.00 more than the LG. but I bought the Maytag. Not together. I got the washer one month and put it on my charge and paid it off and then went back and bought the dryer. Ok I paid about $150.00 more in all. But hopefully thy should last me 10-15 years. If it saves an American job, fine. If it helps to keep Maytag in this country instead of moving to Mexico, it's damn well worth it. That's how I feel. If we want good paying jobs, we need to keep American companies here. I'll even say ok, buy an LG if they made it here. But if the price is close to the same, I'm going to support the American company.

 

Don't expect profits to suffer. If we lose a factory here and it's forced to move to Mexico, or China, their profits are going to go way up. We should expect them to. I would bet right about now Whirlpool is making a hell of a lot more profit than they were when those factories were here.

 

GM blowz...why wouldn't one boycott them?