Love of Party, Or Love of Country?

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Brtblutwo, Dec 22, 2015.

  1. Brtblutwo

    Brtblutwo New Member

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    Which political party loves America? Not the United States that once existed, but the flesh-and-blood nation that we all live in now?

    The debates we have witnessed — too few and far between for the Democrats, frequent enough for the Republicans to constitute a new reality TV show — have provided an incontestable answer to that question.

    The Democrats embrace the United States of Now in all of its raucous diversity.
    Democrats are not free of nostalgia. They long for the more economically equal America of decades ago and celebrate liberalism's heydays during the New Deal and civil rights years.

    But Hillary Clinton, Bernie Sanders and Martin O'Malley all stand up for the rights of a younger America — today's country — that is less white, more Latino and Asian (and, yes, more Muslim) than was the U.S. of the past. The cultural changes that have reshaped us are welcomed as part of our historical trajectory toward justice and inclusion.

    The Republicans, particularly Donald Trump and Ted Cruz, don't like our country right now. They yearn for the United States of Then. The current version is cast as a fallen nation.
    True, the party shut out of the White House always assails the incumbent. But a deeper unease and even rage characterize the response of many in the GOP ranks to what the country has become.

    This can cross into a loathing that Trump exploits by promising to deport 11 million undocumented immigrants and block Muslims from entering the country while dismissing dissent from his program of demographic reconstruction as nothing more than "political correctness."

    It is certain that in their hearts, every candidate in both parties still likes to see us as "a shining city on a hill" and "the last best hope of earth." Within the GOP, Marco Rubio and Jeb Bush have been especially careful not to abandon the virtue of hope and any confidence in the present. But this makes them stronger as general-election candidates than within their own party.

    The stark cross-party contrast complicates any assessment of Saturday's Democratic debate. As Clinton, Sanders and O'Malley all made clear, each believes that their own disputes are minor in light of the chasm that has opened between themselves and the Republicans.

    "On our worst day, I think we have a lot more to offer the American people than the right-wing extremists," Sanders declared at the debate's end. O'Malley concluded similarly: "When you listened to the Republican debate the other night, you heard a lot of anger and a lot of fear. Well, they can have their anger, and they can have their fear, but anger and fear never built America."

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...-racism-is-enshrined-in-the-constitution.html

    http://news.yahoo.com/trump-uses-vulgar-term-describe-clintons-2008-presidential-134320518.html

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...more-big-political-lessons-i-learned-in-2015/


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  2. perotista

    perotista Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    From watching the last 10-15 years I would say both parties love their party more than the nation. It is loyalty to party instead of country. Pelosi, Reid, McConnell and to a lesser extent Boehner all exhibited or put the good of the party over the good of the country.

    But of course if you are looking through deep red colored glasses it is the Democrats who put party above country. If you are looking through deep blue colored glasses it is the Republicans. Both put their party's agenda above country. Above the wishes and wants of the the majority of Americans.

    You can tell this in political favorable/unfavorable ratings. According to Gallup the Democratic Party has a 39% favorable rating vs. the Republican Party's 37%. Independents view both parties worst than their overall ratings.

    http://www.gallup.com/poll/181985/neither-major-party-cracks-favorability-latest-poll.aspx

    The bottom line is both parties force their agenda or try to upon the American people.
     
  3. Brtblutwo

    Brtblutwo New Member

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    You should vote Republican if you cannot see the difference between the goals of the two parties.

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  4. Oldyoungin

    Oldyoungin Well-Known Member

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    It's always funny to me how partisan voters convince themselves they are on the "right" side.... when truly educated people know that both sides only look out for themselves.
     
  5. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The goals of the two parties are the same, pandering for votes and power.
     
  6. perotista

    perotista Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I vote for the candidate that I believe will leave this country better off when he leaves than when he first entered office. The last two presidents are utter failures in this. I am not that much of an ideological guy. I base my stance on the different issues on what I think is best for the country, not what I have been told to think by the two major parties as party loyalist do or what is best for whatever political party one belongs to.

    I look for a candidate that has a positive vision for America, not one that only is interested in pushing their political agenda upon the rest of us. I do not like Trump and never would vote for him as he would be bad for this country, I view Hillary Clinton in the same light. I wonder if this country can stand 3 below average presidents in a row.

    In fact my choice who fits my criteria in the last 6 presidential elections, ended up being an independent or third party candidate in five of them and six overall since 1968. I will not vote for the lesser of two evils, you still end up with evil in the oval office. I do not vote for the least worst candidate, that still leaves a very bad winner as we have seen over the last 13 years.

    In the latest poll in a head to head match up between Trump and Clinton, 12% of the independent respondents states if that was their choice, they would either stay home and not vote or vote third party. It remains to be seen if they do, but that is a huge amount voicing their dislike for both the leading candidates. One has a 60% unfavorable rating among independents and the other 56%. Only among their inner party circles are they liked.

    It is only the deep red or blue tinted glasses the party faithful wear that stops them from seeing or viewing the overall dislike of these candidates.
     
  7. PARTIZAN1

    PARTIZAN1 Well-Known Member

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    Reform party - what a joke. What do you get .00000007 % of the vote ? In a electoral college system third fourth fifth 25 th and 30 th tier parties do not about to a mosquito fart...
     
  8. perotista

    perotista Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Is it a joke to elect someone who leaves this country worst off than before he entered office only because he happens to be a Republican or Democrat. Sure I voted for Perot twice since I thought he would be better for this country than either Bush the elder or Clinton. Clinton surprised me and he was good for the country. I voted for Browne, Libertarian in 2000 and 2004, glad I did. Bush the younger turned this country over to Obama in worst shape than when Bill Clinton turned it over to him. I did vote for McCain in 2008 and for Gary Johnson in 2012 as in 2012 I lost faith in one and didn't trust the other candidate. So when Obama turns over the country in worst shape than when he first entered office to whomever, I will have had no hand in it. It was others who choose Bush and Obama, not I.
     
  9. Alucard

    Alucard New Member Past Donor

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    In my opinion, the Democratic Party loves America.
     
  10. Professor Peabody

    Professor Peabody Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    San Bernardino should tell us who loves party vs who loves their country.
     
  11. Spooky

    Spooky Well-Known Member Past Donor

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  12. US Conservative

    US Conservative Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It does.
     

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