Michael Brown Shooting: This is intresting

A martial arts expert testified in the Zimmerman trial that once Martin had Zimmerman pinned on the ground he had the overwhelming advantage. The prosecution could not refute. In spite of that SB continue to assert that Zimmerman was in control and had the advantage and should have just let Martin ground pound him and now runs away from his statement of fact that weight is the determining factor.

 

It's not an insult, a statement of fact, you claimed the press should have obtained the juvenile record and criticized them for not doing so. When shown otherwise you attempted to change it to "evidence" which was NOT the subject being discussed. Moving the goal post due to your fallacious nonsense about the press being so to be exactly that, fallacious nonsense.

We'll repeat

Quote Originally Posted by Wake_Up View Post

You >>

Juvenile records are SEALED the press has no access to them.

Have your good day now that you have been corrected and educated as to the matter.

 

I agree with the expert. The sucker punch was the set up for getting a disorientated Zimmerman down. Then once he's been mounted and the pounding of head against concrete begins, Zimmerman has seconds to react; at that point he instinctively begins reaching for his weapon or even feels Martin reaching for it.

The situation with this officer is also about the same. Somehow the behemoth Brown gets in the compartment with him and they are struggling for the same weapon. Now Brown is immensely stronger than the officer and might be able to wrestle it away. The weapon discharges, the pair break apart. Brown moves away. Depending on how badly hurt the officer is from the scuffle he might be disorientated, which gives Brown time to put some distance between them before the officer can get out of his vehicle. So forth and so on. Then assuming that Brown turned and came back toward the officer with additional intent to harm, the officer opens fire. The officer continues firing as long as there is forward momentum from Brown.

 

A lot of supposition there, but the bottom line is that if a person is on their back getting beaten to the point they think they will be killed, they have a right to defend themselves. If that means sticking a fork or a knife in someone, that's legitimate. Same for a pistol.

While Zimmerman is a bit overeager, zealous even, that does not deprive him of his right to self-defense from an attacker.

 

Absolute supposition on my part -- or an educated guess. Either assessment works for me. I operate from the standpoint of how did the youngster manage to get Zimmerman on the ground and then control the situation in the face of Zimmerman's age, experience, and martial arts background. That included with the fact that (at least I think it was established as a fact) that Zimmerman's nose was broken (or damaged) leads me to think that it was a sucker punch and an effective one at that.

 

I agree the most likely scenario is Martin attacked Zimmerman with sufficient surprise and force to put Zimmerman on his back. At that point, it became a case of self-defense for Zimmerman.

 

If I have to tell you that either you are a weak ass man or naïve as hell. I will let you figure that one out, because a teenager or someone between the age of 17-19 is no match for a real man.

My assertion is that age and weight TOGETHER play a role and give you an advantage. My oldest brother was 6'2 and weighed roughly about 235lbs, my father was about 5'9" and weighed roughly about 200lbs. When my brother was 19yrs old he thought he was a man and challenged my father. He quickly found out the difference between a 19yr old who thought he was a man and what a real man was.

That is the problem in today's society we have to many punk ass men. I listen on this forum to grown men talking about how a 15, 16, 17 or 18yr old can kick a grown man's ass. Sorry, not where I come from.

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Please tell me how you get sucker punched by someone you claim is suspicious and you are chasing in the night with a gun.

 

When that suspect disappears then suddenly reappears.

Do you agree Zimmerman lost Martin that night and, thinking Martin was running for the exit, ran toward the exit? If that is true, then how could Zimmerman possibly catch up to Martin on the way back to this vehicle unless Martin returned?

 

When was he ever a suspect? Last time I checked Zimmerman was never Law Enforcement.

See that's where the problem comes in. How do you know Zimmerman was running for the exit? He claimed he was looking for an address to give to the police in a neighborhood that only has 3 streets. He claimed to be scared, who runs after someone in the dark and they can't see them. He and Trayvon had words before he was supposedly sucker punched. Now you call the guy a suspicious, a suspect, etc. but you are going to let him walk up to you and sucker punch you. Something about that dog don't hunt.

 

So, if you see someone suspicious in your neighborhood and they disappear in the darkness, are you telling me you can't go looking for them unless you are "Law Enforcement"?

 

We send them into war, once again your bromides fail.

Your assertion was weight age has nothing to do with it.

So let's hear it, Brown had the DECIDED weight advantage, at 18 he is an adult, therefore Wilson had a right to shoot him and Brown was a wimp to get himself killed according to your assertions.

I could care less.

That is the problem in today's society we have to many punk ass men. I listen on this forum to grown men talking about how a 15, 16, 17 or 18yr old can kick a grown man's ass. Sorry, not where I come from.

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So Zimmerman should have pulled his gun and shot him BEFORE the sucker punch?

 

I am asking you how do you as Joe Blow citizen label someone a "suspect" when they are doing nothing wrong. Sure you can do anything you want to, but just remember there are consequences for your choices because the person you are chasing may think you are suspicious and wonder why you are chasing them. Pretty sure you can see where this is going.

 

Well when I went through Basic Training at the age of 18yrs old I was no match for my 30yr old Drill Sergeant and he was only 5'9", maybe 175lbs.

BS that was the assertion you were trying to say I think.

I don't know what Brown had for the simple fact I don't know what happened and neither do you. Now when the real facts come out about exactly what happened instead of your opinion of what happened I will tell you what rights Officer Wilson had to do and not do.

I am pretty sure you do, because it shows what you are talking about is BS.

Zimmerman should have minded his business and let Trayvon mind his.

 

I don't care about you we send 17 year olds onto the front line, once again your entire argument is totally specious.

No it is your assertion repeatedly stated for years that whoever has the weight has the advantage no matter what. Note how you suddenly want to run from that.

He had the weight therefore the wimp deserved what he got according to what you have stated. Wilson had a right to seriously injure him or kill him.

No I could care less about you BS assertions about your family, they have no bearing here.

You>> Please tell me how you get sucker punched by someone you claim is suspicious and you are chasing in the night with a gun.
Me>> So Zimmerman should have pulled his gun and shot him BEFORE the sucker punch?

No we are passed that point here try again.

You>>

Me>> So Zimmerman should have pulled his gun and shot him BEFORE the sucker punch? Yes or no?

 

LOL, your right a 17yr old private is a lot tougher than a 30yr old Drill Sergeant.

BS. My assertion has always been that a man has advantage over a teenager and yes a 205lb grown man has advantage over a 160lb 17yr old teenager. Yes that has always been my assertion.

Officer Wilson had a gun, so how does 296lbs give you advantage over hot lead?

According to you he did, I will wait for what the investigation says.

It has plenty of bearing unless you are a punk ass dad getting a beat down from your sons.

So now a 205lb grown man needs a gun to handle a 160lb 17yr old teenager. Wow.

No, I don't believe a 205lb grown man needs a gun to handle a 17yr old, 160lb teenager.

 

Shots may have came from that grassy knoll .

 

Is sent to the frontlines to fight in hand to hand combat, your point falls on it's face. Are you denying this country sends 17-18 year old soldiers to war?

Brown was an adult and no your point is completely fallacious and without any basis in fact.

Note your desperate attempts to dance and qualify it. But since that is what you do, so does a 290 adult over a 180lb adult then.. But of course the martial arts expert totally refuted your assertions during the Zimmerman trial.

So you do not believe have leverage is an advantage? Being is better physical shape is an advantage?

It's called an equalizer. That's why Brown lost and is a whimp and deserved it according to your previous statements about Zimmerman deserving what he got because he was a wimp.

No according to you, Brown had even a more decided weight advantage than in the Zimmerman case.

No your asserted unprovable assertions and anecdotes carry no weight with me.

And try not to dodge this time

You>>

Me>> So Zimmerman should have pulled his gun and shot him BEFORE the sucker punch so he wouldn't get sucker punched? Yes or no?

 

Who is training those 17-18yr olds?

An 18yr old man is not equal to a 30yr old man.

First of all we don't even know the weight of Officer Wilson and we don't know that there was a physical confrontation were weight was a factor, so there is really nothing to debate on other than your opinion. That Brown was this 296lb strong man and that Officer Wilson was a 180lb weakling.

Sure leverage is a factor, along with weight, along with age, along with strength, along with experience. There are man factors that gives on an advantage or disadvantage.

Again all this is moot, because it is your opinion and nothing else that Brown attacked Officer Wilson. Now if you have concrete evidence that Brown attacked him please share it with the rest of the world.

Your right if Officer Wilson is 15yrs old.

It doesn't matter, because who are you to have to carry weight with in the first place.

Whats to dodge?

There have been thousands of fights were someone is sucker punched and they didn't need to pull out a gun and shoot anyone, so NO the cowardly wimp shouldn't have pulled his gun and no one knows if he was sucker punched or not.

 

All part of life and death. Good to see you answered your own question.

 

Who cares , he was a thug and he is dead , next.

 

That is an unproven statement but it does lend proof to the accusations of your racism.

Dude, it's racists and haters who make Conservatives and Libertarians look bad. Sure, there are Liberal racists too as this thread amply displays, but it's those on the right who are the most obvious about it even if both sides are equally racist.

 

Doesn't matter. We send them off to fight in wars against soldiers older than them or do we require our enemies to only send 17-18 year olds.

By what measure? I know 18 year olds who are

Taller
Quicker
Stronger
Smarter
Wealthier
Better looking
Uglier
and more dangerous than 30 year olds I know

Someone has posted it and I even gave you another 20 lbs. so it doesn't change your assertion that the person who weighs more always has the advantage and if they get killed it's their fault because they were a wimp.

Well well well he finally admits it.

ROFL no it is not moot, without the firearm Wilson was at a decided disadvantage.

Dodge noted, we are talking weight here, both of them are adults.

Then stop trying to use you unprovable assertions about your family as evidence of something.

For you the facts.

Me>> So Zimmerman should have pulled his gun and shot him BEFORE the sucker punch so he wouldn't get sucker punched? Yes or no?

We are talking the Zimmerman/Martin fight.....dodge noted.

 

Sure it matters, you don't see other 17-18 yr olds training them, why is that?

You may know a few, but on average 17yr olds are not handling 30yr olds there is always an exception to the rule. Not often. That is just a fact of life no matter how much you try and water it down.

Again for the 1000th time. There are many factors that go into it. Age being the main and the rest follow.

Sure leverage is a factor, along with weight, along with age, along with strength, along with experience. There are man factors that gives on an advantage or disadvantage. Just thought I would put all of that in since you are being dishonest about my words.

How do you know that?

That should be your nickname The Dodger. In the Zimmerman trial you whinnied about Zimmerman being 50lbs heavier was not a factor now that Brown is larger its a factor. Talk about a hypocrite.

Its not just my family, there are thousands of examples to prove this.

No he shouldn't have, why would he need a gun in a so-called fist fight.

 

some people still haven't gotten over the Martin thing even years later....

 

Because they haven't been in long enough to reach the rank but you certainly see them becoming platoon leaders and corporals who lead them into battle, why is that if they are at such a disadvantage and the old soldier will always dominate them?

Prove it's an exception, but at least you are now admitting not an impossibility as you have before.

Age has little to do with, size strength agility have more to do with it and of course during the fight leverage has everything to do with along with surprise don't you agree?

Except surprise trumps experience, does you little good when you are surprised and then leverage applied wouldn't you say?

Oh I'm glad you are finally admitting it.

Now with Brown rushing Wilson within about 3 steps and having a 100lb advantage, a height advantage, a speed advantage exactly how did the age difference mitigate that?

Size, strength, speed.

T

Oh I wouldn't dare profess to take it from you.

No I stated fact as was proven in court, you were the one whining about his being 50lbs heavier.

So Zimmerman was 50lb's heavier and did not have the advantage of leverage or mobility yet it was his fault he didn't handle the lighter but with the advantage of leverage and mobility. While Brown was heavier, had the leverage and mobility yet it is stil Wilson who is at fault and should have handled him.

You seem to have a conflict here.

Conjecture refutes nothing.

Well you keep saying he had a gun so he should never have been cold-cocked so which is it, he should have just shot Martin on sight or what?