More than 84 million Americans expected to travel over winter holidays as cases surge

And what if you thought they were going to die no matter what? Better in your arms than a doctors final embrace.

 

In that fringe scenario, sure. With tons of additional precautions.

 

What if it was your wife and you wanted to kiss her one time and let her know how much you loved her? Same thing with husband, a partner, brother, sister, grandma, grandpa?

 

I live with my wife. I would not need to travel to see her. As for the others, again, in that fringe scenario, sure. That's doesn't actually address the topic, but fine. I'd still be taking precautions.

 

The OP called these people stupid or something along those lines. They’re not stupid. They’re human.

 

The vast majority of people traveling are not doing so for the excuse you provided.

 

But that can apply at any time. You also risk that you will be the cause of the early death. If you need to see them wait a few days until the rush is over

 

They're Stupid Humans that are prolonging the Death and Despair of this Pandemic for traveling needlessly to Social Gatherings that increase the number of Covid-19 cases and Death. Yes! they're STUPID!

 

Laboratory setting factoid not representative of real world conditions or applications. Anti-maskers (which I don't know if you are or not) really need to stop standing on these micro-slices of information because all they're doing is helping keep the pandemic alive which justifies shutdowns and other measures plus, ya know, its killing our citizens.

 

Larger droplets collect on the filter media. 1 micron Aerosol particles which carry more than 80% of the viral load (if present) pass right through.

 

There is solid and multiple scientific studies that confirm the fact that medical and cloth masks do not stop 1 micron aerosol particles. What keeps the pandemic going with regard to fatalities is not sufficiently protecting those most at risk. Positive tests are a meaningless statistic.

 

You said that the larger droplets occur from coughing. My mask gets wet without any coughing - just through normal breathing. How can that be when water molecules are hundreds of times smaller than the virus

 

I’m going to remove one word from this quote because of it’s negative connotation. It’s by a great man who played a big role in ending Japanese expansionist imperialism in the 1930’s and ‘40’s and was a pioneer of gender equality.

Wise words for those who would put others at risk during this pandemic for self serving reasons.

/s

 

Your breath contains a distribution of water particulates. Most are 1 micron (and smaller) aerosol particles. Some are large enough to be attenuated by medical masks.

1 micron water particles are made up of millions of water molecules held together by surface tension.

 

Which is why I said "Laboratory setting factoid not representative of real world conditions or applications." Because while that laboratory setting factoid is true its not representative of real world conditions or applications. Think about it, if masks were completely useless then every single doctor, nurse, technician, and administrative staffer working at a hospital would have been infected by now. But they're not because this sub-filtration fixation anti-maskers have isn't representative of real world conditions or applications.

 

You're getting there..............

 

NPR is, the others are too right-wing for me.

 

I have already concluded that masks do not prevent or protect based on peer reviewed science. The narrative that medical and cloth slow the spread and protect people is false.

 

of course you need to compare. If you only listen to Alex Jones (who is he?) then you only get one opinion. I am simply calling you out because you initially made a very BROAD STATEMENT about "far right" sources. I then ask you to identify those which you deem to be straight -arrow. I've now asked 3 times and even provided some examples for you to state that those examples are in the middle, or far left. You refuse and by doing so, tip your hand despite attempts not to do that.

In your world, any place that portrays Democrats/statists in favorable light are ok with you. That makes you a partisan hack and thanks for revealing that.

 

Awesome, when Covid relief packages were being discussed in DC, please cite me 1 example, just one where NPR stated that the Democrat party was blocking it and providing full details as to why. Or, cite me 1 time when NPR did any vetting at all on Kamala or Biden and brought up their questionable money trails and deals.

NPR you claim is center= you funny guy

 

Healthcare workers use N95 masks and in some cases closed system breathing apparatus. Plus the operate in environments with high rates of air volume filtration (~ 10 air changes per hour). They are predominantly in the very low risk demographic groups. And anyone displaying symptoms or having CDC listed preconditions have been removed from service. Many have been infected but experienced no or mild symptoms. All of the studies looking at mask effectiveness have been in the real world such as the Denmark and Marine Corps studies.

 

Actually you wrote "The only thing they do is stop the large particles from coughing." hence you acknowledge that masks do provide some protection

 

Ah yes the so called 'Danish study' used by far-right pseudoscience blogs to claim masks don't work when even the authors of the study specifically stated otherwise in the very text of their publication. Of course it only took a day or so before real scientists jumped all over that fake news and debunked it, I even made a thread about it, and it continues to get shot down even in recent days.

http://www.politicalforum.com/index...ntation-of-the-so-called-danish-study.581585/

Oh and I'll throw these up because I want you to see the enormity of what these anti-mask nutters are attempting to challenge with their antics. Btw this is page 1 of 16, I cant actually post it all because there's a character limit.

 

No, not really, my friend. Thanks to Brownian Motion, particulates with a diameter of 0.1 micron are actually paradoxically easier to filter out than particulates of 0.3 micron, which are called MPP (maximum penetration particulates) which is why they are used for NIOSH certification. While N95 NIOSH-certified masks filter out at least 95% of particulates with 0.3 micron, (the ones that penetrate the most because they are not subject to Brownian Motion), they filter about 98% of particulates with 0.1 micron (given that Brownian Motion makes these smaller particles bounce around and collide with the mask's pores). I know that for lay people this is hard to believe, but it is factual. This is true of all N100 masks, N95 masks, and ASTM-grade surgical masks that have an inner layer of blown melt unwoven nanofibers, as long as they achieve a good seal. The seal for the surgical masks is, if not aided by other devices, of course much less perfect than the seal for a professionally fit N95, but it can be enhanced by simple techniques like three interlaced rubber bands, and even better, by braces made of neoprene or silicone. Non-ASTM flimsy paper facemasks that do not have blown melt do not protect. Bandanas and neck goiters do not protect either, and cloth masks protect just a little.

I am fully aware that the general population ignores that, or doesn't purchase these better masks (or the braces) but they are all actually available now (N-95 and ASTM facemasks - not the N100's which most vendors are only selling to medical facilities and professionals), and the price gouging has been dropping to the point that these solutions are now rather affordable.

So, it's not that masks don't protect the wearer. They do, if they are the right masks, with the right seal, and worn the right way (below the nose, they don't help, haha). An educational campaign teaching the population would be great. Unfortunately we haven't had any, while other countries have (I've seen them in international satellite TV).

I've shown here a meta-analysis with 29 studies done with N95s and surgical masks, in healthcare settings and in the community, and overall the relative risk for the wearer dropped to 18% of the risk for unmasked people. It went from 1 in 5.7 people getting infected without a mask, to 1 in 32. So, it's factual and demonstrable that masks do work for the wearer too (although nobody pretends that the risk drops to zero; 1 in 32 is still a risk; but it is way better than 1 in 5.7). The problem, though, resides in the population wearing the wrong masks, having a poor seal, and wearing them the wrong way (again, due to the sore lacking of an educational campaign in America).

Asymptomatic people have significant shedding of the virus, enough for transmission, in the two days that precede the development of symptoms, in case they will become symptomatic people. It's not that they cause or do not cause a pandemic; but they do contribute to the spread. Actually more recent studies are proposing that asymptomatic transmission actually accounts for up to 80% of transmission, given that these people are undetected and walking around, while those who develop symptoms tend to self-quarantine (if they are responsible people).

 

Safe travel for the holidays is possible with a number of precautions. For example, people should quarantine for 14 days - or at least 7 (ideally 10 days) if they have means to get tested negative at the end of that period and before the gathering. In that period, they shouldn't see ANYBODY - should fill up gas tanks in advance, get groceries and medications in advance, only accept contactless deliveries, etc. They should of course abort the plans if they test positive or develop upper respiratory symptoms or fever/aches, loss of smell, etc.

Then, if they remain well and test negative, they should travel in private vehicles (no airplanes) and not even stop in restrooms (get commodes and urinals; restrooms are indoors, poorly ventilated, and high traffic; they are potentially rich in virus-laden aerosol clouds). If ALL people who are gathering for the holidays have followed the above to the letter, no exceptions, and have remained asymptomatic if 14 days, or asymptomatic + a negative test if 7 to 10 days, then the gathering will be safe. Otherwise, I wouldn't recommend it.

The 7 to 10 days + testing method is not 100% guaranteed due to the relatively small possibility of false negative tests (relatively small if a good test is used). But it is pretty decent. The 14-day method is pretty safe if followed strictly. It is not 100% either if it doesn't involve testing at the end, because conceivably, someone could still be a fully asymptomatic carrier. But it would be pretty unusual for this to be the case after 14 days of strict quarantine. I think the possibility is negligible enough.

The problem is, I doubt that much more than a small fraction of the 84 million Americans who traveled for the holidays, followed the above precautions (so, it is almost certain that two to three weeks after the holidays, we will experience a worsening of the already dangerous surge we're seeing right now even before the Christmas effect). But you know, people CAN be safe if they CHOOSE to be. A HUGE part of how the pandemic got to be so widespread here in America, is that we the people didn't behave properly and didn't take it sufficiently seriously.