My thoughts on Westboro Church...

Correct. And the demonstrations occur on public property somewhere in proximity to the event. They have not, to my knowledge, attempted to demonstrate on private property. If they were to do so, I believe they would be dealt with swiftly and severely as they should be. In fact, as an aside, some southern states do allow you to shoot trespassers. I believe Mississippi is on of them. Would be great if they would demonstrate on private property down there. Ahem.

Because of our fascination with the macabre. If it bleeds, it leads, as they say. The fact that these miscreants get any coverage at all is what keeps them going -- they thrive on it, like maggots to spoiled meat. Take away the attention and they whither and die. But as long as we continue to give them what they want -- namely publicity -- by keeping them in the limelight, they will continue with their vile protests against the fallen heroes who, ironically, gave their lives (presumably) for their right to protest at their own funeral.

 

See, and that it exactly how it should work. Keep the power in the hands of the people. It is careless and unwise to give it up to the government when we have it right there at our disposal. Don't have to throw out the baby with the bath water. Sometimes you just have to spank the baby.

The Patriot Guard Riders are a perfect example of this -- they will go to any military funeral to protect the families from Phelps and his cadre of knuckle-dragging inbreeders if they are asked to.

 

OK, fine. Just don't tell me you're "all for free speech" if you think the government should "protect" you from getting your feelings hurt. You are "all for speech that you like." That's not free speech under even the loosest of definitions.

And I'm not giving anyone a pass -- that's not up to me. The Constitution already guarantees all citizens the right to peaceably assemble and express their opinions. No pass is required. If an out-of-control 18-wheeler happened to roll right over Phelps and his little klan of sycophants while they were on the sidewalk dishonoring one of our fallen heroes, I might just laugh. But in the mean time, their right to be jackasses needs to be defended.

 

Glad to know you agree. I am like my brothers.. I would punch them in the nose and have the fine in cash on my person.. Happy to pay the fine for a chance to whup their A$$es.

 

I'm not advocating violence, just to be clear. And neither do the Patriot Guard Riders. Here they are exercising their First Amendment rights at the request of a military family:



"Patriot Guard Riders attend military funerals to show respect for those who have sacrificed and to shield their loved ones from interruptions by protestors. "

This is the way it should be, total strangers coming together to honor the fallen and protect their families from shameless politicking while not shredding the Constitution in the process -- the Constitution that the fallen hero died defending. This is why we live in the greatest nation on Earth -- because of its people, not because of a government that "protects" us from every little thing.

I'm actually tearing up a little just looking at the picture.

 

I am not denying their right to protest or anything else. If they are mad at the government they should take it out on the government. See. I'm not against anybodies right to peaceably assemble, or their right to petition the government for grievances. That is their right. Harassing people who have no power to address their grievances is not a peaceable assembly. Not from a logical standpoint anyway.
　
　
I stand wholeheartedly for their right to be as stupid as they wish in their opinions about the government, say whatever stupid idiotic nonsense about the government that comes to your head, or assemble/petition the government, this is neither. It's plain simple harassment for no other reason than to incite unrest.
　
　
Can't really say it any plainer. The courts might see it differently but I believe they would be wrong.
　
　
I'm sure under certain situations picketing a funeral would be appropriate, but right off the top of my head nothing really comes to mind. Maybe a mafia hitman, or a neighborhood thug/gang banger, or a politician/corporate scum bag who should gone to jail but cheated justice by dying before he could be properly tried and convicted, although in poor taste at least they are going after the target of their protest. But going after a soldier who didn't create the government policy or have the ability to stop it, is beyond stupidity. Go to the source of the grievance, Washington, and by all means picket til your little heart is content, and may the force be with you, you have my total support even if I disagree with your complaint. That is the intent of the law, not to protest the innocent, and harass the grieving innocent.

 

Well .. my favorite law professor told me to either file suit or kick their a$$es and pay the fine..

 

Or just kick their arse and leave. Usually when the cops get there is when everything get's out of control. Not advocating violence either. I think he just passed out? Must have been the heat or standing around all day carrying that heavy paper sign? Yea that's it.

 

???

How do you figure? In their eyes, they are just witnessing as the bible instructs. I think this is one of the only groups that tries to live their lives strictly the way the bible tells them. Most other christian groups focus on the parts they like and omit the parts they don't.

At least they are practicing what they preach, however vile and distasteful that may be.

In my mind these people are the true christians. Others just worship as a hobby.

 

If they are disturbing the peace, that's one thing, but my understanding is they hold signs and pray.
　

It is not for you (or me) to decide the content of their speech. Yes, you are absolutely 100% correct that there are better ways to get their point across, but that does not change the fact that unless their actions are actually harming someone (not just causing them grief), then a government of a free society has no business interfering with or infringing on their right to express their views, as asinine as said expression may be. There was a group of patriots who got tired of petitioning their government a while back to no avail. They decided to do something drastic... and ended up dumping a bunch of tea into Boston Harbor.
　

But to what end? What purpose would it serve to prevent the Phelps clan from staging their silly demonstrations? What harm is being addressed?
　

Well, obviously our fellow citizen Phelps believes so. But we're not talking about what's appropriate here, we're talking about what's legal. Let me be clear: Phelps' actions and those of the mental midgets that make up his "congregation" are as vile and disgusting as it gets. But still, they have every right to be vile and disgusting. This is also not to say that they would necessarily escape any consequences of their actions as some of our fellow citizens certainly have visited some upon them from time-to-time. But the government should not. We don't throw out the baby with the bathwater.

Again, we're not talking about good taste. And we certainly don't want the government legislating propriety. And to play Devil's advocate for a moment, the fallen heroes are the targets of Phelps' vitriol. Just like in the Vietnam era when all the hippies were spitting on the 19-yr-old kids straight off the farm, Phelps says these service members ought not serve the country any longer due to our wicked ways and that he will dishonor their memory for serving Satan [paraphrasing, but that's essentially what he said].

See above.

No, I'm sorry, but the intent of the law is to protect the citizen from government infringement of his rights -- and one of those rights is to express his viewpoint -- right or wrong.

 

Not sure what you could sue for -- what's your actionable claim? As far as paying a fine, good luck. Would you also be prepared to do jail time and face the inevitable civil action that would be brought against you by the victim of your assault? Go ahead, punch Fred Phelps in the nose -- he may end up owning your house. If you're real nice, he might let you rent it back from him.

 

Yeah, the fistmarks on his face must have happened when he convulsed -- self-inflicted I tell ya.

 

I am certainly no biblical scholar, but where in the Bible are Christians instructed to lash out at grieving families?

 

They don't have a right to incite to violence - which is what is now happening - even the KKK has marched against them.

 

Noooooo

You have to be a LOT more inventive than that!!

Packet of fresh prawns in the hubcaps of their cars

Stink bombs

Letting the air out of their tyres

Blue tacking pictures of naked women all over their cars, signs and anything else you can reach

Surrounding them peacefully and singing some dirty songs, something they would find uncomfortable to listen to

In other words be as annoying to THEM as they are to you

 

LOL! I love your ideas.

Don't throw stink-bombs though - the police might think you are throwing something lethal and fire on you.

Wouldn't it be great if you could run up to them with a giant permanent ink stamp that says "MORON" and stamp their foreheads?

 

Wow guys, I am shocked at the amazing response my post garnered in the past three days. I actually had to post this as an Inquiry for my college English 111 class, and i could not have been more pleased as to the discussions that spanned from my initial thread. I also have to say that i agree with most of you, and i would also punch these guys if i had the opportunity. I actually believe that some people don't deserve the rights they're given, and it should be totally right to take them away. Call me a communist, but in my opinion, the first amendment is over rated.

 

Bow to robots;

　
　
This is a criminal act. Destruction of private property, or in this case the King's property (government property) and a person or group could be held criminally and financially responsible for such acts. Sure it sounds patriotic these days but to the King this was an act of terrorism.
　
　

　
　
Once again I am not saying they cannot have their silly demonstrations, but if their grievance is with the phone company why take it out on the gas company. Unwarranted protests is harassment, which promotes civil unrest, and is a form of disturbing the peace. The fact is this is a controversial subject and the government would rather not have these mutants have some idiot judge, who misinterprets the law give them more power than they already seem to have.
　
　

　
　
　
Spitting on a person, even a target of indignation is illegal for obvious reasons, but what these people are doing is figuratively spitting on the graves of fallen soldiers and in the faces of the innocent families, because of their grievance with the government. The original intent of the amendment was to allow people to peaceably assemble and petition the government. Later it was determined that protest could also be directed at employers. It is only the government failure to act that allows this harassment on an innocent party, for the grievances they have against the government. Read the entire definition of the meaning of the 1st amendment and you will see that I am right, and the government’s failure to assure public order in this situation is a misguided one.
　
　
You don't blame the water when the dam breaks.
　
Just a side note, the spitting on troops returning from Vietnam is an urban myth according to most sources. There is absolutely no evidence of this happening. Power of suggestion has carried this myth to epic proportions, where it has been immortalized in books and movies as an actual reoccurring event.

 

Bowerbird;

Done me well to this point in my life. Been in numerous situations where there had to be a punk who needed an attitude adjustment or a bully beat down. A punk/bully can only be handled one way and one way only. You stand up to em, hurt them, and hurt them so bad they flinch when they even think about doing the same thing to anybody else. And if you can't whip them fairly, don't be ashamed of picking up an equalizer to see that the deed is done.


Your way makes them more vindictive, my way makes them more humbled and passive.

 

IMHO, they are a bunch of liberals who are trying to tar Christians. If you look at family history, the money that began the church was acquired by civil rights lawsuits.

They have forgotten the main point of the New Testament, which is to love your neighbor.

 

So their elaborate scheme is to pretend to be Christians so they can make Christians look bad, politically??

It even sounds dumber when you take the time to write it down. Trust me.

 

Personally, I'm for limited free speech when it comes to certain things.

I honestly don't have a problem with the free speech zones used on protests either.

I realize it's all a slippery slope but I don't think we apply enough rational limits to speech when it comes to protests.

 

Bullying is different and male bullying in particular

These people know that if they get hit they can sue so my way they cannot sue, or if they did they would not get a return on the outlay of the costs

 

It's a joke. That said, I don't really believe they are Christians, other than in name.

 

They are bullies/punks, and they are using the law to get away with it.

If you want to pull Halloween pranks on them and stir them up more, it doesn't seem to be much of a resolution.