My thoughts on Westboro Church...

But that's my whole point -- the tea party patriots dumped the tea in the harbor because their efforts to redress their grievances with the Crown were falling on deaf ears. Now, please, I'm not equating that vile pack of inbred sycophants that comprise the Westboro Baptist Church to our nation's heroes, but the tactic is the same. Phelps' methods may be offensive, but he feels it is his way to get his point across -- and that's not for us to decide, if we wish to live free, anyway. If we do not wish to live free then we can instill speech codes all over the place just like they have on college campuses these days. Then nobody will get their feelings hurt. But also nobody will be able to say anything to anyone for fear of being turned into the good taste police.
　

Holding up a sign and praying does not constitute disturbing the peace.

Well, that's exactly what happened when that family in Arizona took them to court. A very wise man one said "be careful what you wish for... you just might get it."

A perfect illustration of the law of unintended consequences and why, when faced with dilemmas such as these the wise course of action is to always err on the side of liberty. IMHO. YMMV.
　

And you've just made the important distinction that the law needs to consider -- real spitting is harmful. Figurative spitting is not -- it might be highly offensive, but it is not harmful.

But the courts reasonably interpret free expression much more broadly -- generally it has to pass the "fire in a crowded theater test" in order to cross the threshold of prohibition. We should be thankful too that our government does not take such a myopic view by-and-large when interpreting the Constitution. Let's remember: the Constitution exists not to tell the citizen what he may do, but rather to tell the government what it may not do. And one of those things it may not do is unreasonably restrict free expression. You do not have a right to not be offended. That is the cost of liberty -- somewhere, sometime, somebody is going to say something you don't like. But considering the alternative, I'll take that risk.

Once again, I don't see this "disorder" to which you keep referring. The Phelps people stand on a sidewalk with signs and pray. I do not see how that could be considered disorderly by even the loosest of standards.
　

So if Phelps the water or the dam?
　

 

One of the most effective ways of dealing with someone is to ignore them completely or "shun" them

That seems not to work with Westboro

The other way is to make them decide for themselves that things are too uncomfortable for them to continue. Traditional methods of doing so have not worked because people have used direct confrontation, which these people have taught themselves to believe is "proof" they are "right"

Instead of equating the behaviour with bullying you should be equating it with attention seeking.
http://www.bullyonline.org/workbully/attent.htm

But is there any real doubt that these people have a narcissistic personality disorder that is driven and fed by the community in which they live

http://www.aafp.org/afp/2004/1015/p1505.html

 

Phelps is the whiner, the government is the dam and the soldier and his family are the innocent party, the water, being subjected to the unwarranted wrath of an idiot that has a grievance with the government.
　
　
The tea party took action against the King's tea because they had a grievance with the King. They didn't go pick on the king's butler at his funeral.
Have to get back to you later time to go.

 

Agreed, as I've made that point several times in this thread alone.

It's never been tried. Every time they show up somewhere, the news media turns it into a circus giving them exactly what they want. Then a family in Arizona dragged them into court -- Phelps' wet dream. Attention whores whither and die without their source of sustenance -- namely attention. Starve them of it and they go away.

I think the Patriot Guard Riders do a pretty good job of shielding families from Phelps and his goons.

Indeed. If it bleeds, it leads...

 

in my mind you are wrong about Christains

 

I think you will find that the Supremes will be more than glad to defend the right of people spitting on the dead soldiers that defend our nation or uphold your freedom to snuff out the life of the unborn but would not be so forgiving if you failed to purchase health insurance.

Basically, the state affords you the freedom from everything EXCEPT over their direct control over your pocket book.

As far as Westboro goes, however, Christian haters love'em. They love to have such ammo to hurl against other Christians. Therefore, the last place these Christian haters want to see those in Westboro are behind bars.

 

Are you suggesting they should be behind bars?

 

They should not be able to defile someones funeral. They may be free to protest away from the funeral, but not during the event.

 

So should they be behind bars?

 

They should have phisically prevented from defiling the funeral in question. Then they could either do jail time or pay a fine.

 

Why? What purpose does that serve?

 

How do you figure?

They are purposely hurting and traumatizing people that have nothing to do with their ideas of what sin is!

They are hideous and vulgar in public!

And they OBVIOUSLY DON'T know their Bibles!

***

Matt 7:1 Judge not that you be not judged!

Matt 7:5 Thou hypocrite, …

***

Mat 6:5 And when ye pray, you shall not be as the hypocrites, that love to stand and pray in the synagogues and corners of the streets, that they may be seen by men: Amen I say to you, they have received their reward.

Mat 6:6 But thou when thou shalt pray, enter into thy chamber, and having shut the door, pray to thy Father in secret, and thy father who seeth in secret will repay thee.

Mat 6:7 And when you are praying, speak not much, as the heathens. For they think that in their much speaking they may be heard.

***

Mat 10:14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.

Got that? LEAVE - DON'T make an ass of yourself!

 

I realized I should give you the actual translation of Mat 10:14, rather then the KJV.

Mat 10:1 And those whosoever don't receive you, nor receive your words, depart the residence/family, or the town of those selfsame, shaking the dust from your feet.

"Shaking the dust from your feet" is a collequialism meaning "with, or making, haste." With urgency!

 

A friend of mine's grandfather owns a private cemetary. Apparently, the Westboro Church had some protests there and his Grandfather told them that the first person who set for on his land was going to be shot in the head for trespassing. It scared a bunch of them off. And he would have been within his legal right to do it too, since he owns the land. He hung up a bunch of signs that said, "All unauthorized persons will be shot on sight."

He owns the cemetary itself and the land about 500 feet outside the gates. So they could still protest, just not at the funerals themselves.

 

Shooting people for trespassing is really foreign to a northern European. I can only say it's a good thing that far the most trespassers on a cemetery are already dead

Anyhow, religious nutjobs like the Phelps thrive on being bullied around, provoking conclict and threats of violence or worse. If they were not being a pain in the ass then they would not do what they do. It provides them with the suffering and endurance they desire.

Therefore, provided that the goal is to have them stop by themselves, the best way to deal with them is to ignore them*) As already pointed out by others.

Provided the goal is to prevent future nutjobs to do the same, the best way is education, education and education.


*) Of course, I do not think they should be ignored since they represent all the bad consequences of religion and that knowledge is very helpful in pursuing the other goal, i.e. prevention of bigotry and hatred by education.

 

Please turn in your America card and immediately report to the nearest deportation center.

 

So, basically what this boils down to is whether the government should "protect" us from having our feeling hurt. I say "not."