NATO attacks Sirte ( to protect civilians )

What do you think is happening in half of the world?

 

I wonder where Moon was when Qadaffi was killing hiw own people? I wonder where Moon was whilst Assad was ordering his tanks to shoot at civilians?

 

So you must be thinking that Moon is God and in control???

Khadafi has been killing his own people since 1970..

 

Well, moon was set against any harm to civilians, as always. Let me say though that I wasn't aware of any massive Gaddafi brutality against Libyans before NATO got its dirty hooks into the possibilities of oil. Were you ? If so, where is your thread about it ?

 

...

Uhm, seems to me that you don't have any problem at all with institutionalized brutality as is in play across regimes in the Middle East.

I wonder on what Earth you are exactly living?

You are just criticizing for the sake of criticizing -- stop it, please.

 

Where were you when our then "compliant thug" Saddam was gassing the Kurds using mustard gas supplied to him by the Western powers?? I was demonstrating outside the Iraqi embassy in London whilst Rumsfeld was shaking the dictators hand. I guess you were in nappies.

 

Institutionalized murder is all right though, as long as you say it's done by precision bombing, as long as you say it's for freedom, as long as you say it's to protect the people in the very cities you bomb, it's all fine and well that children and the such die not from Gaddafi but from our very own soldiers from our very own hero's?

I mean it's been bred into us since the first time we took step into primary school that we're meant to be proud of our military, that we're meant to support them no matter what because what ever they're fighting for is always just and for a greater cause, even when done so on the orders of politicians who in appear to be in government for themselves more than the people who put them in, and their motives appear ever self serving as they show us all how they inevitably fail us all, as they have failed themselves, as they have failed our national reputation, but they will never take accountability for it, they will always get paid for such behaviour, and they'll make sure the country stays being run this way.

Being opposed to this, does not mean I condone brutal dictatorships, it doesn't mean I condone Stalins or Hitlers or Saddams horrific atrocities, trying to justify our views by claiming we condone such behaviour is simply a shallow attempt to smear our opinions and views, but it only works if you can fool people into thinking that you have a valid point, although in reality it's a weak argument, because such could be applied to anything but is based on nothing but your opinion, where as people like us have a more logical point of view, how do you spread peace when we only bring war?

 

Uhm,...

First of I'm Belgian -- which pretty means the same as being "stateless". We don't learn that crap of "being proud of our military". That's just out of this world for me.

You speak of peace, but what what you really mean is "calmness". Yes, the Libyan people live in your so-called "peace" (/calmness) for about 4 decades. They, however, never had the privilige to have a peace of mind. I'm pretty sure that's why the Libyan people ousted their leader and why millions of Libyans are celebrating on the streets.

Your post is entirely built around the idea we only bring war. That, of course, is utter and pure madness.

The real issue at play, for me personally, is the dream, after app. 1500 years, to re-integrate Nothern Africa with Europe, so the people there can live with a peace of mind in a prosperous, free and democratic country.

 

Our nations didn't help the NTC because of humanitarian aims, we did it for new oil contracts, we did it to secure the oil, we did it because the Americans must have pushed NATO in the direction of doing so, to give Obama brownie points, not only did he get justice for WTC, he's now also going to take credit for bringing the regime who supposedly ordered the Lockerbie bombing into justice.

Also stop trying to make out the Libyans ousted Gaddafi, NATO did so, and did so outside of the remit of the U.N Security council resolution.

This is part of the resolution which explains the position of countries whom abstained in the security council vote..

"The delegations of India, Germany and Brazil, having also abstained, equally stressed the need for peaceful resolution of the conflict and warned against unintended consequences of armed intervention.

"

They had good reason for taking such positions as now, they have proven the wiser, and Libya is now in a humanitarian crisis as a result of the armed response conducted by NATO to Gaddafis aggression. This has recently been proven by reports of wounded being abandoned in hospitals, lack of water, lack of food, inflation, lack of medical supplies, all this when supposedly the NTC has received hundreds of millions of dollars.

Also when I spoke of military pride I was speaking of countries like Britain, America, France, some of the key players in the NATO who are taking action in Libya.

 

Several US oil companies have current oil contracts that go back to 2004.

 

ll

The death toll in the course of the last week (20-26 August) is of the order of 3000. The hospitals are in a state of turmoil, unable to come to the rescue of the wounded. The International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) confirms that medical supplies are in short supply throughout the country.

In recent developments UNICEF has warned of shortages of water due to the NATO bombing of water infrastructure throughout the country. “This could turn into an unprecedented health epidemic “ said Christian Balslev-Olesen of UNICEF’s Libya Office.

NATO warplanes deliberately targeted the peaceful vigil of tents in front of the Gadhafi compound in a gruesome massacre. The mainstream media acknowledges the massacre, while stating that gun wounds are the cause of death in crossfire between loyalist and rebel forces. The victims are :

“The identities of the dead were unclear, but they were in all likelihood activists who had set up an impromptu tent city in solidarity with Gadhafi in defiance of the NATO bombing campaign. (Forbes.com, August 25, 2011)

We are not dealing with collateral damage. Extensive war crimes have been committed. NATO has blood on its hands. The heads of government and heads of state of NATO member countries are war criminals.

 

It's not just the USA who has contracts there and it's not just the USA who's attacking/attacking Gaddafis Libya.

 

Also, Mrs. Merkel and Mr. Westerwelle are taking enormous heat down in Germany for not paricipating in NATO's operations and for their behaviour at the UNSC. It even has come so far that even bloody Mr. Kohl is criticizing Mrs. Merkel! This is unseen. And Mr. Westerwell is ready for the dumpster (e.g. "German Foreign Minister 'Has Lost All Authority'" is most sweet headline out there)

 

They took the right decision, if they get crucified for it, then clearly political change is needed throughout Europe and the West more than ever. Politics... Power and politics, paid for with lives, innocence and instability, hypocrisy, manipulation, greed. The world can't keep on going this way, especially if we're supposed to be the "good" guys.

They'll be crucified for putting sound principle and morality before politics, before imperialist aggression, before committing atrocities while claiming to do so legally yet already being in a position when such parties have already crossed the lines set by the laws given to them.

 

Right.. Oil companies in Libya are TOTAL, ENI, Hess Marathon, Occidental, Dutch Shell, BP and Conococ Phillips.....


Statistics provided by the Chinese government show that China has become the third largest buyer of Libyan oil. A total of 75 Chinese companies invested in more than 50 projects in Libya worth an estimated US$18.8 billion. Chinese m have reported that most of the investors are state-owned companies.


http://www.2point6billion.com/news/2011/08/25/china-could-face-obstacles-in-a-new-libya-10031.html

 

Do you think NATO helps rebels for free? Clearly that would be an issue for NATO assuming America is still at the helm, considering recent publicised reports of Americas fear of Chinese military growth. In the 21st century, as the 20th, our armies and empires are run on oil.

 

Libya has money.. They have access to Khadafi's frozen assets and oil revenues.

What's the problem?

 

Read post above yours.

 

Its a non issue.. China is also extracting oil in Sudan and Yemen...

 

Russia and China face the possibility of being sidelined in Libyan oil production.

http://arabnews.com/economy/article494453.ece

A BP spokesman too underlined the company was committed to returning to Libya “as soon as conditions allow,” though it had no time frame. BP, Royal Dutch Shell, ENI, OMV, Repsol YPF SA and Total were among the Western oil companies operating in Libya before the war began.

Russian giant Gazprom, as well as China’s CNOOC and Sinopec were traditionally present in a dominant way before the outbreak of violence in the oil rich Libya. About 75 Chinese companies operated in Libya before the war, involving 36,000 staff in some 50 projects.

 

Chinas oil demands will rise as more and more of its population learn to drive cars and such, and as their military grows, as their trade ties with Russia and Africa develop, not wanting to be left in the dust, the sinking ships of the Western Capitalist Empire is clutching at straws by grabbing any oil they can under any excuse they can concoct.

We have influence in the Med, so we'll take the oil in the Med, we can't exactly invade Africa for oil, however I doubt it hasn't crossed our politicians minds, and I would dare to say it might happen one day, would have had much less chance of happening if Gaddafi had actually managed to drive African nations towards prosperity, instead of being work horses for a host of international imperialist nations, like they always have been.

 

No we aren't.. We have NO US oil operations in Yemen or Sudan.

What is "oil in the Med".... ???

You apparently don't know that US oil companies don't OWN any oil.. They are jobbers..

 

We'll see.

 

The big winners in Libya will probably be TOTAL and ENI, but all they do is extract the oil on shares.. They don't own the oil they extract.. They BUY it from Libya.

 

Yes because they will always have the right to buy oil in every country that produces it right?

I looked through a list recently of Oil Companies in the Middle East, the U.S has oil interests in nearly every major Oil producing country there, if forcing regime change out of the remit of the resolution set by the UNSC will ensure the stability of the flow of oil in the region then so be it. Lives of the nationals of such countries are to be considered below the priority to keep the black stuff flowing.