Nigel Farage visits Bulgaria. Talk Show host goes tough on him.

The second link shows that Romania's contribution to the EU budget in euros is 1,116,047,698.15 and the amount the EU spends in Romania in euros is 2,659,470,625.22.

That, by anybody's calculation, means that Romania is a net beneficiary.

Is any further comment needed?

My mistake: the stats in the second link are from the year before. They were only reported last year.

 

I have different sources. I wouldn't trust private press so much and for good reason.

This is from the website of the party that runs the government at the moment regarding the total use of EU funds by Romania in all its membership history. I hope you do well in Romanian because the party has no English option for the site:

http://uslonline.ro/bilantul-guvernarii/acceleram-absorbtia-banilor-europeni/

Sorry I couldn't find a governmental source in English for you. Maybe you will get the general idea though. If not, ask your Romanian colleagues for some help. It clearly states that prior to 2013, Romania has used (in almost 7 years of membership) just 7% of the EU funds out of the amount offered for each year. It says that any real use of EU funds is going to start only now, in 2013 and 2014 with the new mechanism of using the funds adopted on 30 September 2013, that would for the first time raise the usage of funds above 7%, to 23,77%.

It says that in July 2013, the highest ever amount to be received at once by the country from the EC was 730 million euros, which, as USL's website follows, is half of all the money ever received in 6 years since this financial procedure was established, so 1,460,000,000 for the entire time of membership up until 2012:

1,460,000,000 / 6 = 243,000,000 euros per year until 2012

243,000,000 per year doesn't look like the 2,659,470,625.22 you mentioned for year 2012
That simply can't be true for 2012 or for any previous year.​

I wouldn't say a net beneficiary, if we look at USL's website. You trying to show me in terms of money how much my country eats up yours is just not going to work.

 

This is a lie. Totally. Read this from 2011:

http://www.zf.ro/eveniment/romania-...a-luat-inapoi-600-de-milioane-de-euro-8497163

If you don't believe this, read José Manuel Barosso's letter from 23 June 2011 to then prime minister of Romania Emil Boc, where he expresses his deep concerns to the prime minister about the situation (the letter was officially published by the Romanian government):

http://www.scribd.com/fullscreen/59...htn0swlkk4m&allow_share=true&view_mode=scroll

 

Thank you for this. I knew that a lot of Eastern European countries had problems spending money they are allocated from European funds, but I had not realised how very stark the problem is in Romania. Given that your country has been so inept in this regard, I cannot see where you get your faith in Romania's future.

I can't help but wonder what happens to the money that's allocated but not spent. You might not trust the press, but I have even less faith in politicians than I do in the media.

 

So getting back to our matters, you see that my country is not a net beneficiary of EU funds as you said. We actually contributed with a lot more than we received. In 5 years from 2007 to 2011 we used just 600 million euros yet each year we contributed to the EU with over a billion euros.

The way such funds are used is under close scrutiny from the EU. The funds that are allocated but not spent simply remain with the EU and after a certain length of time we will lose the right to use it. The money that does get invested in Romania is closely followed by the EU through all the steps. The EU ensures that the targets are met. This makes fraud close to impossible. Many speculate that this is why our politicians are so apathetic, so indifferent towards these funds, because the EU would not let them do fraud with it.

 

Isn't that sheer madness? With Romania being one of the poorest countries in Europe? With all that money on offer?! You might be happy to see Romanian taxpayers money go to the EU, but I cannot see why I should be happy to see British taxpayers money do likewise, especially when the country is so deeply in debt and has to borrow the money for our contribution, leaving British children who haven't even been born yet to repay the debt. And the more you tell me about Romania, the less belief I have in your view that Romanians will stop leaving for a better life in the West.

I know the EU keeps the money, but I still don't know what happens to it. Are we just supposed to forget that the EU has piles of unclaimed cash? And you have to joking ... fraud is endemic in the EU. The EU's own auditors have refused to approve the accounts for the last 19 years. The EU is hardly in any position to preach to Romania.

 

Yes, the effort is worth it despite the current situation. It's all going to pay off in the end.

Please make more statements like this towards the end of January. And remember that whatever migrants may choose to leave because of the new legislation will get divided by the number of the other big Western economies like Spain, Germany, Italy, France. You think UK is such a big dream for Romanians or Bulgarians? Well let me tell you something: Large areas of Romania are still very rural in nature. Illiteracy there is so high they don't even know the UK exists. So save your worries about people demanding welfare. They can't comprehend what welfare is either.

Your fears are arrogant. Whatever people come from here include people from our best and they don't need welfare. They boost your GDP. Regarding the street people do you think January will make a difference to them? They probably don't even know about this. Do you think they have TVs in the street where they sleep?

Your fears are ridiculous, even self-teasing since you well know that the real poor never demand benefits. Their life is on the streets forever. How many times do I need to tell you this tamora? Look at USA. They have very high welfare, higher than in the UK. Yet USA has entire grooves, backalleys and parks with large communities of homeless, filthy people. Homelessness in USA is almost a national subculture.

Oh come on...

 

UKIP suck

 

People in the UK used to have faith like that, but after 40 years worth of membership we're quite weary with waiting. I think I've said before ... it's always jam tomorrow with the EU. Good luck anyway.

That migrants will also go to other countries has never been in dispute. However not all countries are as generous with their benefits as some. It stands to reason that some migrants are more likely to go to countries with more generous welfare safety nets.

Also not in dispute, but a country like the UK is a bigger dream than a country which houses them in dismal conditions and discriminates against them.

I hope you're right, but the UK experience so far is that you're wrong. If they don't know the UK exists, God help us when they do.

My concerns are not in the slightest bit arrogant. They are sensible. This boost to GDP benefits large businesses but simply does not feed through to the average taxpayer and worker who pays a larger burden for the extra welfare and health spending. British low or unskilled workers are particularly vulnerable and must compete for jobs with immigrants who are prepared to live in substandard conditions for less pay. Then there's the extra housing required in an already densely populated country. (Communities here never want land built on.) You also underestimate the homeless and they have help to access benefits.

Vlad, you can waste your time and tell me this until the end of time and it still wouldn't be true. The poor claim a lot of benefits.

Meaning what? The EU's own auditors have refused to approve the EU's accounts for the last 19 years. You can turn away and refuse to acknowledge that if you want to. What happens to the money that isn't claimed?

 

UKIP are not perfect, but who's better? Which party do you vote for? I'll tell you what I think of them.

 

[video=youtube;2Z2moRokDfQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpag e&v=2Z2moRokDfQ[/video]
​

Just a while ago you said that nobody knows how many immigrants are there, not even the authorities. Now all of a sudden you have such accurate data. Can you at least refer to the number of Romanians that did complete the 2010 census please?

So why don't they immigrate too? German or Dutch employers for example would never ask British workers to work and live in substandard conditions and above all would not give them less pay than the average.

Not the ones living in the street.

So what happens to it? I thought it was sent into the EU budget.

 

Great. Some very expensive fires put out until the next one catches light. Before that happens, I'd like to see the UK untie itself from the declining European economy, but there is no reason why trade should not continue in the same way the EU trades with other non-EU states.

I didn't say I have accurate data at all, nor do I need it to know that we have a lot of Romanians here that I'd really rather not have. (The 2011 census shows that there were 73,000 Romanians here on the day the census collated statistics for, but the Census is unlikely to be a reliable measure as it relies on people actually completing their forms, and completing them honestly ... no one checks). In 2012, statistics from the Office for National Statistics [ONS] the people who conducted the census, showed there were 94,000 here. I can't find more up to date figures.)

I doubt low or unskilled British workers would be able to compete more effectively with Eastern European immigrants in Germany or the Netherlands. The same problems would apply. Workers are paid what the labour market will stand and poor Eastern European immigrants who are used to substandard conditions work for less than Western workers. Workers pay for the accommodation they can afford. Welcome to capitalism the world over!

The homeless can still claim benefits. Even those who don't claim cause problems in other ways, whether it's begging, crime or costs to the National Health Service. They're not living on fresh air!

Oh that's ok then. We can just forget how much fraud there is in the EU budget. Net contributing countries are entitled to be furious about this and with the EU for shifting the blame for not stamping it out on individual member states. The link relates specifically to structural funds.

Millions of euros designed to regenerate Europe's poorest regions have been siphoned off by organised criminals, including the Italian Mafia, a BBC investigation has found. This was from 2010, but do you suppose anything has changed?

 

As I've said signs we're exiting the crisis have shown. Recovery in the EU these months is lead by Eastern Europe. And it's only the beginning:

[video=youtube;kHGjBQVJ8eU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHGjBQVJ8eU[/video]​

Don't get lost in petty details of the present. Look at the potential future. Also study more the emerging economies of E-Europe.

How do you know there's fraud? What's the evidence?

Great. So now you say Mafia in Italy eats up UK money via the EU. How realistic.

 

And I'll be pleased to see an independent UK trading with all who wish to trade whether there is a crisis or not, and the growth figures, as highlighted in your video, although obviously better than negative figures, will hardly set the world alight (though it's interesting to note that these 'star pupils' are not eurozone member states). The eurozone crisis is most certainly not over and no one seriously suggest that it is. It's fundamental flaws are always with us. I still don't want to be a part of any political union in Europe in the forseeable future.

I'm not getting lost in anything petty. I'm not getting lost at all.

Sick joke, right? It's been well documented and is available for anyone who chooses to look.

I said exactly what I said. The mafia defrauds European taxpayers of their money and obviously that includes UK taxpayers' money and I linked to a BBC report that supports this view. Are you somehow trying to imply it's not realistic? I'm not saying the mafia is responsible for all fraud that takes place within the EU. Not even the mafia is that greedy. And you didn't answer my question: do you suppose anything has changed since the BBC compiled its report?

Any organisation that values its reputation would have at least suspended this Commissioner, responsible for trade, pending trial on hundreds of thousands of euros worth of tax fraud charges, but the EU dismisses this as a 'private' matter! Apparently Barroso doesn't get concerned about ethical standards of behaviour. Petty of me to bring it up, is it?

Fraud goes right to the heart of the European Commission.

In the meantime, here, vital front line public services are being cut, the cost of living rises, wages are failing to keep pace, and europhile British politicians tell us that we're 'in this together' and spend money that we don't have like a 'drunken sailor' so I'm a little weary of being told to 'look to the future' and to forget the 'petty' issue of having British affairs directed by the EU. Sorry, but it's always 'jam tomorrow' with europhiles!

[It seems we must have useless parasite politicians, but the ones we can kick out of office will always be preferable to the ones beyond the reach of democratic accountability.]

 

The petty details I was talking about is the poor street people, the criminals that you say are likely to increase in number and destabilize your economy... Glad January is less than a month away so that this discussion will soon end.

Also Romania not using the Euro yet has nothing to do with the growth. This is the kind of country that will never need a bailout, with or without the Euro. We are not the kind of people to ask for a bailout or have trouble with the Euro, not because of ethical reasons or national pride. The reason why it's that way is a long complicated story for me to tell but I could if you're interested. I could also expand on why Romanian economists say the Euro will start a positive chain reaction in our economy.

 

You've misinterpreted what I said. Given your usually excellent command of the English language, I don't know whether this is deliberate or just laziness. I did not say Romanian immigration (whether its due to the poor, criminals or anyone else would destablise the UK economy). If you don't think the numbers will increase you will not have any objection to the UK government's (no doubt, doomed) bid to restrict immigration from Romania and Bulgaria, will you? Your fellow citizens just might object to their potential earnings being jeopardized though!)

So the Romania government's power to set its own interest rates in line with what its economy needs has nothing to do with its recent success, unlike say the Greek government's obligation to live with interest rates set by the European Central Bank in Frankfurt? That's good then. And didn't Romania get a €20 bn bailout from the IMF, World Bank and EU in 2009?

Europhiles in Romania might well think the euro will be a good thing for Romania's economy, but Western Europeans were told it would be good in the most glowing terms when the euro was launched in the first place. There was an official video to illustrate how just how good it would all be, but not surprisingly, as it has become quite a joke, it seems to have disappeared from the internet altogether. (If anyone does know where I can find it, I'd be glad to know.) We still have Captain Euro to entertain us. Get the kids indoctrinated before they get cynical, eh?

Perhaps Romania's europhile economists have thought of a way to fix the eurozone's fundamental flaws? I hope so. I hope trade will flourish with or without the euro, but I don't want to be a part of the European political union because this is about far more than economics anyway. You can expand in any way you please.

The EU is now building its Common Security and Defence Policy [CSDP] and the UK government will submit (whilst pretending it won't make any difference or that the difference will be to our advantage, naturally).

 

I don't care what your govt does. When did I say anything about your government's decisions, particularly those related to immigration? When?

I don't object to, nor comment on any governmental decisions, show me where I ever did so. I object to non-governmental public statements including yours and those of UKIP and UK press which are brainwashing corporations that you worship which place the blame in the wrong place. You blame immigrants for everything, actually a few nations in particular which is bull(*)(*)(*)(*).

What your government does is the last facking thing I could care about right now. Does me accusing you make you feel like I'm accusing the government? Does your govt and your people make one body, or is that just a latent subconscious feeling at the back of your mind? Pity. Cause only in Iran, North Korea and generally the former communist states the govt and the people make one body and when citizens are addressed to they often are programmed to take opinions to the level of the government.

What was that? What is that?

The interest rates current Romanian rulers set are far worse than those set for the Greek government.

That was a rather minor event that didn't boom across the EU and the world like Greece's did. And as of today, 8 December 2013, we've paid back most of it. We've borrowed €20 billion back then and now there's only €5 billion left to pay which is somewhere over 30% of our GDP. Not bad, is it? That's not a bailout programme in the real sense. Everyone borrows money. Otherwise you could say that even USA was bailed out by China a few years ago. And it surely does set its own interest rates, so does Japan, the most indebted country in the world. None of the two use the Euro.

 

Calm down. I didn’t say you had. I simply remarked that you wouldn’t object if in the unlikely event the UK govt is successful in its effort to restrict immigration from Romania and Bulgaria since you think immigration won’t increase anyway.

Again, I didn’t say you had. How on earth am I brainwashing anyone? How is UKIP brainwashing anyone (especially corporations)? We don’t have that kind of money. And where on earth did you get the idea that I worship corporations? That’s so far from factual; it’s completely ridiculous! And the UK press has a whole range of opinions across different newspapers (though they all support parties who want to remain in the EU during election campaigns.) Nor have I blamed immigrants (except criminal immigrants) from anywhere for anything. I place 100% of the blame squarely at the feet of the present and previous UK governments.

Do you know how much the European tax payers money is spent by the EU on brainwashing and propaganda or is it because it calls it 'communicating' and you agree with it that you're only opposed to eurosceptic opinion? Aren't those opposed allowed to say what they think too? I'm not sure you get this democracy stuff, at all.

I hadn’t felt you had accused me of anything. I thought this was just an exchange of views. The UK government and UK people most certainly don’t make one body; they never have and they probably never will. Most people didn’t even vote for this government even though 2 different parties formed it. And I know you don’t care about the UK at all, and I have no reason to ever expect you to.

What was/is what? It can’t be that you don’t understand what these potential earnings are? For example I can’t believe you don’t know how many doctors Romania has lost to other countries including the UK where they can earn far more in the last few years.

Interest rates in Romania are very low now. I wonder what you think they should be and why.

I didn’t pass judgement on the bailout, but bailout it was and only 4 years ago. You must have a short memory in saying "this is the kind of country that will never need a bailout".

I’m still waiting for an answer to my earlier question, BTW. Or don't you want to talk about corruption in the EU anymore?

Whatever, but please deal with what I've said, because I'm done with dealing with your bull**** interpretations of what I've said.

 

There is a double meaning there. What I said is that UKIP and much of the media are in themselves 'corporations' of brainwashing.

They aren't as long as they talk about how backwards and 'invadatory' particular nations are. That's not freedom of speech. That's insulting.

I care about all nations and all people. Therefore I can only wish a country what I wish mine and all of Europe. It's up to you to referendum yourselves out if you don't like it. However, in case UKIP happens not to win a majority in the general elections will you still call the UK a euroskeptic country or will you just say elections were faked? Most likely both.

I know but that isn't the problem for them because if UK left EU I think there will be a special law there allowing medics to continue since they are official employees of their hospitals with all their documents in order. You won't deport doctors (not that I wouldn't want to because I miss good medics here when I go to the hospital.

You will see when we adopt the Euro in 2018. This isn't Greece. ALso it's a country rather rich in natural resources unlike Greece. High interest rates here will mean an involuntary reform of all the taxation system. That's the way things always move here, much different than Greece. The whole fiscal, political mentality here is different than in Greece, even than in our cousins Italy, Portugal or Spain. That's because unlike them we were a communist country and were used to function differently as a society. It's hard for me to explain but there is very much to tax here that could boost the economy, production/investments, living standards, welfare, institutions like schools/hospitals, but little will and much corruption to do so. However, if we were in a situation to have to give up the Euro, from top to bottom, from the level of the government to the last person on the last street of the last town, we would do anything it takes to avoid that. So far the country has implemented some of the most novel reforms but only when problems reached the tipping point. We are a nation that is motivated to evolve only by danger, pain, extreme discomfort.

You probably will not quite get this but a 'troubled' financial sector is actually good for Romania as it will be forced to expand. And believe me there's plenty of room for it to do that unlike Greece. It will start paying taxes, redundant parts of it will collapse. At all levels of our market, institutions, society, all that is a leftover from communist industrialization will be either weeded out spontaneously or integrated into a fully contributing-to-society, fully tax-paying organism. Greece was never the industrialized communist country that Romania was. The current 'structures' here are far different than in Greece.

No, it wasn't a bailout program. USA back then did exactly the same. It was simply a one-loan only borrow.

The level of corruption in the EU is neglectable.

 

I ask you to justify statements, you ignore such requests and churn out more bull(*)(*)(*)(*). It's a pattern that rarely never seems to vary with europhiles. They are apparently incapable of constructive debate.

 

Actually the gross domestic product per capita in Romania as of 2012 is $13000 not $8000 as your instant google results told you. And that's from last year. This year it has to be higher because the economy grew further since then. You might also want to revise the UK figure as well.

So sticking to the original topic, there's no need to worry about too many immigrants from here.

 

Oh yeah... you accuse people of 'not caring about the UK' but when I tell you something about my country you call it bull(*)(*)(*)(*)...

Constructive debate... Look who's talking. You call post #95 constructive debate?

 

Meanwhile I can tell what the Scottish think of UKIP and Nigel Farage, because this thread is about him and his views. Some time ago the police had to evacuate him from Scotland otherwise the Scottish might have just killed him. He says these protesters are just some hooligans but curiously he hasn't set foot in Scotland since:

[video=youtube;4HegOc-IbJY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4HegOc-IbJY&list=FLZ-WQxZFOYjggN3AyaONMXQ[/video]

[video=youtube;CODZsA_wr4k]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CODZsA_wr4k&list=FLZ-WQxZFOYjggN3AyaONMXQ[/video]​

 

''reisist fookin shait''

[video=youtube;2nh8NIB9q9o]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nh8NIB9q9o&list=FLZ-WQxZFOYjggN3AyaONMXQ[/video]

''Nigel scum, a fashist! Nigel scum, a fashist!''​