No, Obama Didn't Lie to You About Your Health Care Plans

This was already posted by HT!, but not as a thread topic. Since a certain group on this site keeps mentioning Obama's "lie", I think it's deserving of a thread.

This is an Alternet article about the ACA and Obama's alleged lies:

President Obama has been getting a lot of grief in the last few weeks over his pledge that with the Affordable Care Act (ACA) in place, people would be able to keep their insurance if they like it. The media have been filled with stories about people across the country who are having their insurance policies terminated, ostensibly because they did not meet the requirements of the ACA. While this has led many to say that Obama was lying, there is much less here than meets the eye.

First, it is important to note that the ACA grand-fathered all the individual policies that were in place at the time the law was enacted. This means that the plans in effect at the time that President Obama was pushing the bill could still be offered even if they did not meet all the standards laid out in the ACA.

The plans being terminated because they don't meet the minimal standards were all plans that insurers introduced after the passage of the ACA. Insurers introduced these plans knowing that they would not meet the standards that would come into effect in 2014. Insurers may not have informed their clients at the time they sold these plans that they would not be available after 2014 because they had designed a plan that did not comply with the ACA.

However if the insurers didn't tell their clients that the new plans would only be available for a short period of time, the blame would seem to rest with the insurance companies, not the ACA. After all, President Obama did not promise people that he would keep insurers from developing new plans that will not comply with the provisions of the ACA. ​

Obama cannot be held responsible for insurers who change or cancel their private policies in the past few months. The only thing he could have done was issue an executive order to prevent this. I think he may do this soon, but by then too many Americans will have superior Obamacare policies that meet higher standards without costing any more (apparently this is a bad thing). With tax credits, these policies can cost even less.

I suggest that anyone worried about losing their private insurance check out healthcare.gov and see what plans are available and if they qualify for impressive tax credits.

Obama needs to stop apologizing and start focusing on getting insurance to the uninsured.

Yes, I know that Alternet is liberal. Yes, I know that Obamacare policies come from private insurers. Yes, I know what socialism is. yes, I know I'm a liberal.

 

Obama owns this lie 100%. He told Americans the same lie over 30 times. Yes, we all know you're a liberal. Nobody else could defend the liar Obama with a straight face.

 

Did you have a point somewhere?

Are you saying that Obama could dictate what private insurers do without an executive order?

Obama said he lied?

 

The ACA intended consequence has always been to force private insurers out of business and for the government to eventually own the entire health insurance industry and for single payer, (socialized healthcare) to be it's ultimate goal. This has never been about health insurance. It is about controlling the populas. Obama has been lying and continues to lie about Obamacare. He owns this lie. Your submission that cancelled policies are relatively new policies which were sold for nefarious reasons to unsuspecting customers is on it's face; ridiculous. Every single example that I have heard and read about concerning cancelled policies have been policies which have been owned by the insured for lengthy periods of time. What has happened is that Obamacare standards such as prenatal care and birth control allowances on EVERY policy is causing once affordable policies premiums to triple and quadruple. It is no different that if we were being forced to buy boat and airplane and motorcycle insurance when we insure our cars.
I am 58 years old and a single male. Why in the wide world should I be forced to purchase prenatal or birth control aspects of insurance. Last time I looked, I didn't have a vagina.
Your Kenyan President is a liar. Has always been a liar. And remains a liar today. And his "baby"; Obamacare is a failure and is an impossibility. It cannot work, period!

 

LOL, that was so over the top brainwashed its hilarious. If you can look like obama, you should hit the comedy circuit as an obama impersonator.

 

And not one fact was given that day.

 

Thanks for re-quoting my post. Maybe you can add something useful?

 

You've gotta be kidding. Of course Obama must be held responsible for this LIE because it was his ACA that made it illegal for those private policies to even exist. Hence, for this reason, it was obvious that millions of people would not be able to keep their insurance.

 

I thought all the Kool-Aid drinkers have ran out, apparently there is a new supply.

 

I was already 99% convinced that you were a paid shill for the DNC or the WH.............this post more than confirms it. This reminds me of the time I was looking at reviews for a companies coupon program when I was comparing it to the competitions. Every single review was average at best or downright negative, except for one which gave the best rating and mentioned how wonderful a program it was and then linked to the companies website and even posted their phone number for questions to be answered. That was obviously someone who worked for the company as I have written reviews on Newegg and other sites but even if I mention a brand or store I never post numbers or web links..........but of course a corporate shill will because that is how they are trained. Your post is a perfect example of a paid shill posting whatever they are told to post. You have zero credibility on this forum.

 

No. The law states that people could keep the policies at the time that the law was enacted. Since then, many people got new policies that did not meet the Obamacare standards. Those policies were temporary and their cancellation was built in.

The right is twisting the truth and making it sound as if the grandfathered policies are being cancelled. This is false.

The people who lost their insurance either had temporary policies or their companies just cancelled those policies. Obama can't be held responsible for this.

So no, Obama didn't lie about people being able to keep their insurance when the ACA was enacted.

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This is just all nonsense scare mongering. We're all getting tired of it.

 

Obama said "if you like your plan, you can keep it".

He DIDN'T say "if you like your plan, you can keep it....as long as it meets the standards of the ACA and was purchased before the ACA was signed into law".

deal with it.

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so EVERYONE who saw their plan dropped, purchased it after the law was signed?

got any evidence for that?​

 

No. Plans that people had in 2010 were grandfathered so that people were allowed to keep them even if they didn't meet new standards. Obama said they could keep them and they did. The people losing their policies are the ones who got temporary policies after 2010. The insurance companies should have warned them that they'd be cancelled by Oct 1, 2013.

 

got any evidence for this?

its a pretty fascinating claim.


[MENTION=62051]Pardy[/MENTION]

 

I am sure that you as a paid staffer are sick and tired of having to defend the indefensible. I bet you look like Wasserman Schultz does now all haggard and depressed because you know that whatever you spew is complete nonsense and no one takes you seriously........but this is your job and you have to put forth the propaganda that your paymasters tell you too. I almost feel sorry for you.

 

Did the author take the time to identify how many pre-2010 law enactment plans already met the guidelines? Of course not because not one man needs maternity care, so every single male at least had to have his plan cancelled due to the requirements in the ACA to carry maternity coverage. That alone is significant enough to merit the lie, but fortunately there are other instances that support the accusation of the lie. Nowhere did it say, "If you're male and you like your plan, and you were forward thinking enough to know you'd need to buy maternity coverage knowing you would never actually use it, you can keep your plan." It was a lie and not one man pre-law enactment who had no maternity coverage and found his plan cancelled as a result would think otherwise.

He already admitted by his actions that he was lying and he went on TV to try to appear to apologize without actually apologizing, so the only ones left to defend the lies are those who can't get out of self denial.

Edit: we need to keep in mind even a $5 premium change since 2010 eliminates grandfathered status per testimony and confirmed at http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/stories/2012/december/17/grandfathered-plans-faq.aspx but without mention of the $5 change. That was Sebelius testimony that provided that dandy piece of info. I'd love to know how many plans from 2010 have had only less than $5 changes in premiums, copays or deductibles.

 

Evidence: it's the law.

Why do you ask? Do you know anyone who had their grandfathered policies cancelled by Obamacare If so, then the law was broken? Maybe you can you provide proof that somebody lost their grandfathered policy due to Obamacare? Keep in mind that Obamacare doesn't necessarily protect private policy holders from traditional healthcare insurer's shady tactics.

The only policies that have been cancelled are the temporary ones that were issued by insurers to cover the 2010-2013 interim, or any policies issued after March 2010 that insurers dropped for their own reasons that have nothing to do with Obamacare or turned up to not meet the new standards -- which were known for years.

Got any facts, or just personal attacks?

 

its the law that ALL health insurance policies purchased before March 30th, 2010 were grandfathered in?

prove it.

 

Not only did he and the other Democrats lie knowingly and repeatedly about this, they did it to get re-elected. If they were in the corporate world pulling this kind of stuff, they'd be looking at decades in prison, there right next to Bernie Madoff.

That anyone can continue to defend this fraud is really quite astonishing.

 

FACT: health insurance plans that were purchased before the ACA was signed can still lose their grandfathered status, if the plan does the following:

-----1.A significant cut or reduction in benefits by eliminating all or substantially all of the benefits to diagnose or treat a condition, or any necessary element to diagnose or treat a condition.
2.Raising coinsurance charges.
3.Significantly raising fixed cost-sharing (i.e., deductibles and out-of-pocket limits) by more than medical inflation (as measured from March 23, 2010) plus 15 percentage points.
4.Significantly raising copayment charges by more than the greater of: (i) medical inflation (as measured from March 23, 2010) plus 15 percentage points or (ii) $5 (adjusted for medical inflation).
5.Significantly lowering the rate of employer contributions by 5 percentage points for any coverage tier.
6.Adding or tightening an annual limit (with one exception).
7.Reclassifying employees so that the reclassified employees are eligible for a different plan (even if it’s a grandfathered plan), without a bona fide employment reason.
8.Failing to continuously maintain at least one covered individual (not necessarily the same individual).----

http://obamacarefacts.com/grandfathered-plans.php


so yes, EVEN plans that were purchased BEFORE the ACA was signed into law, are being dropped.

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I have just proven, from the ACA's own website, that the OP is false.

Plans purchased after AND before the ACA was signed, are being dropped.

Many plans purchased before the ACA was signed, are losing their grandfathered status.

The OP, is debunked.

 

More bull(*)(*)(*)(*) from you. You must get paid by the post instead of hourly.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162...-keep-canceled-health-plans-for-another-year/

"Plans are being canceled if they fail to meet the health care law's 10 minimum standards, including maternity care, emergency visits, mental health treatment and pediatric dental care."

"Late last month, Mr. Obama pointed out that plans that existed before the Affordable Care Act was enacted were "grandfathered in" to the system -- consumers only lost coverage if insurers altered those policies after the law took effect. In that case, Mr. Obama said, insurers had to "replace them with quality, comprehensive coverage."

This is complete nonsense here. If you change the policy or raise the prices any amount above a very small threshold the policy becomes null. The irony is that they say they are protecting people against rising premiums except that any premium increases on these "grandfathered" plans are STILL far smaller than swithing over to an Obamacare plan.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/14/obamacare-fix_n_4274051.html

"Under the policy Obama announced Thursday, health insurance companies will be permitted to extend current policies, even though they don't comply with Affordable Care Act standards for benefits and financial protections, for their customers into next year. Insurers won't be allowed to enroll new customers into these extended policies, Obama said."

"Health insurance plans are being canceled next year because the Affordable Care Act includes a slew of benefit mandates and consumer protections at the heart of Obama's reform platform."

 

Indeed, plans are being dropped EVEN though they were purchases before the ACA was signed.

The ACA's own website states this.

 

I addressed that here: "The only policies that have been cancelled are the temporary ones that were issued by insurers to cover the 2010-2013 interim, or any policies issued after March 2010 that insurers dropped for their own reasons that have nothing to do with Obamacare or turned up to not meet the new standards -- which were known for years."

I don't know how many people will lose plans, but I bet it's a tiny fraction and that all of them can get equal or better exchange plans. They have plenty of time to switch. They should have been told years ago by their insurers that their plans weren't good enough to be grandfathered. Again, you can't blame Obama for this. This was public knowledge for a long time.

 

BULL(*)(*)(*)(*).

Obama first said "if you like your plan, you can keep it".

Then YOU said that the ONLY plans being dropped were ones purchased AFTER the ACA was signed.

Now we know that plans are being dropped EVEN though they were purchased before the ACA was signed.

deal with it.

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this is FALSE.

plans that were purchased BEFORE the ACA was signed, are also being dropped.

 

You have not addressed the fact that policies that were issued prior to March 2010 that are being cancelled. Ronstar, proved your statement that these policies were grandfathered in, and were not being cancelled. The poster proved that a policy could lose it's grandfathered status if certain changes to the policy were made after March 2010.

But the real question here is whether the President lied when he said unequivocally that if you liked your plan, or if you like your doctor, nothing will make you change them. He made that statement about 30 times. So, did he lie? You claimed that he didn't.

In order to prove whether someone is lying, you have to prove two things. One, what the individual said in untrue. Two, that the individual knew at the time that he said it that it was untrue. The first criteria has already been met. We know that people that are losing Insurance plans and doctors that they likes because of the ACA. So, Obama's statement was untrue.

To clarify the second part, I refer you back to the Obamacarefacts.com. There you will find the following:

http://obamacarefacts.com/grandfathered-plans.php

So, the Health and Human Services (HHS) knew that plans were losing their Grandfather status at the time that Obama was making this statement. Thus they knew that his statement was false. As such, Obama knew that the statement was false at the time that he made the statement. Therefore, Obama did lie.
QED