'No surprise' we're seeing coronavirus surge in Republican areas

Discussion in 'Coronavirus Pandemic Discussions' started by CenterField, Oct 17, 2020.

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  1. CenterField

    CenterField Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Oh, and by the way, why in the hell are you lumping together with this, "lower respiratory illnesses" as if they're somehow related to the flu or to other respiratory viruses??? What is meant by that in the CDC list is CHRONIC lower respiratory illness. That's COPD usually caused by heavy smoking, asthma, etc.

    Sigh... lay people trying to talk about Medicine tire me. Often what you get is that they hear something, don't have a clue about what it really means, and run wild with the concept (like the ones finding that the term "herd immunity" is very cute and running wild with it, having no clue about how it's actually achieved and what's the price to pay for it).

    I don't know why I waste my time. Usually I very patiently explain things so that people learn, but lately I've been less patient. All this bombardment of misinformation and people spouting the most far-fetched ideas as if they were big authorities and with a huge level of certainty, gets to be really fatiguing for those who actually know the topic.

    Just in your recent posting here we got five examples...

    Thinking that the excess death number is small and disproves the seriousness of the pandemic and how it causes way more deaths than expected.
    Lumping together deaths by influenza and deaths by other causes of pneumonia as if it indicated influenza as a much bigger killer.
    Lumping together chronic lower respiratory illnesses (COPD, asthma) as if they had something to do with this.
    Not understanding why the vast majority of death certificates have more than one illness.
    Calling sequelae, side effects.

    Dear, here's an idea: why don't you leave Medicine to Medical Doctors, huh? Do you want to pontificate about it? Why don't you do what we do? Get a high GPA and a high MCAT (they need to be really, really high). Be prepared to get some $250,000 of student loans at least, if you're not independently wealthy. Then, study the topic for 4 years of pre-med, 4 years of medical school (do study hard, and forget about things like leisure evenings and weekends), 4 years of residency training (be on call a lot, if you're not on call and already there, get to the hospital at 6 AM for pre-rounds, get home at 11 PM, repeat), then sit for the thousands of extremely hard questions for the USMLE (United States Medical Licensing Examination) steps 1, 2, and 3, then sit for the thousands of extremely hard questions for the specialty boards, and then engage in lifelong CME (Continuous Medical Education) for MOC (maintenance of certification).

    We know a bit more about these things than a lay person. But you can get it too, if you do all of the above (and spend a few years paying back the student loans).

    Sigh...
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2020
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  2. apexofpurple

    apexofpurple Well-Known Member

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    I have heard this before and you did a good job in making the point but I strongly disagree when its used to justify a laxed approach to COVID (not say you are but people do). Because in the end these are peoples lives we're weighing and then there's the as-of-yet unknown non-fatal long-term consequences of having COVID none of which are good, hell it even can harm our feline pets. There's just no upside to this plague and we owe it to humanity to do whatever we can to stomp it out as fast as possible and not rest on simplistic reviews of statistics.
     
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  3. CenterField

    CenterField Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Not so. I meant it this way too. My choice of words had this intention. Sometimes one needs to decompress, especially after reading so many misinformed posts.

    Unfortunately, it's not funny, actually. Winter *is* coming, and with it, we'll get the twindemic.

    Can you imagine people catching the flu, and freaking out because they don't know if it's Covid? Then they will run to ERs and Urgent Care clinics, all crowded with the staff overwhelmed, long wait, and people are coughing in the same waiting room... and then the flu person who freaked out and ran there, is breathing there too and... ends up actually catching Covid-19 then and there, on top of the flu. Oops.
     
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  4. CenterField

    CenterField Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Agreed, except that she did a good job in making the point. She didn't. She actually made the opposite point, unbeknownst to her. Her numbers point, over the period of one year, to 335,577 excess deaths. It's the very opposite of what she is saying. She is trying to say that it's not a big deal because it didn't increase that much the death total... when in fact the excess deaths this year are even higher than the tally of confirmed deaths by Covid-19, and I propose that it is due to two reasons: there are many undiagnosed deaths by Covid-19 due to testing shortage, and there are also some deaths that have occurred because the healthcare system is too distracted with Covid-19 and things like elective surgeries got postponed, patients got afraid of going to see doctors in crowded waiting rooms to be screened and fine-tuned for other conditions, etc.
     
  5. Curious Always

    Curious Always Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    :) I was being sarcastic, but, yes. My nerd & I are both well educated, and we can extrapolate without understanding the nits & gnats. We've both known, since he was sent home to work in March, that this was a big deal. His prediction was a year at home. We'll probably do that, and them some.

    We re-arranged the entire house, so that his once, part-time office, (now full time office,) and my full-time office were not on the same floor. Figuring out who needed to leave the office, to hop on competing conference calls was getting old.

    This is craziness. I get people are tired of it, and are looking for ways to make it seem not so bad.

    We can't even agree on the efficacy of masks. If we don't make a shift, soon, we'll die out and our 250 year experiment will be over.
     
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  6. MiaBleu

    MiaBleu Well-Known Member

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    we;; stated............and question answered. .

    What I find scary is that some will believe their politicians over the experts. Ordinarily the experts work with the politicians. to put into effect appropriate health care plans for a population. In the current case.......the "go it alone -narcissistic" leader is way out of his depth.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2020
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  7. CenterField

    CenterField Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Exactly, when that idiot Scott Atlas tries to adopt the stupid Herd Immunity strategy (he has no clue what it would entail and what unintended consequences it would have) and Trump seems to embrace it like he said in the Town Hall, I wonder, aren't they saying that the vaccine is coming? So why expose people unnecessarily? Aren't vaccines by far the best and safest way to achieve Herd Immunity??? Weird.

    But actually we know why. It's all political. They want people to feel that it's not a big deal, we'll just naturally conquer this via Herd Immunity, let's just go out and be merry and toss the precautions out the window... so the economy spikes a little and Trump jumps on it as a talking point right before Election Day...

    I mean, if some unnecessary thousands of American deaths ensue, who cares, right? For Trump we're just losers and suckers anyway. Whatever is needed for re-election.

    I suspect that after November 3rd we won't see as much of a push for Herd Immunity.
     
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  8. CenterField

    CenterField Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Fabulous. So nice to see a good poster who knows what she is saying! Welcome back if you have been absent (I'm new here, but very active here since registration, and I hadn't seen you around). You seem to have registered in 2017 but you don't post very often. Do come here more often; we need people who actually have real knowledge.
     
  9. CenterField

    CenterField Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I feel a bit guilty about my posting here, today. It's been sarcastic and arrogant. It's not what I aspire to achieve. I value civility. I'm a humble person in terms of my knowledge, when it's outside of my area of expertise (I do know what I know and I don't shy away from posting from the standpoint of my professional knowledge, but I also do know what topics I don't know about, and I am more than willing to humbly learn from other posters, in those topics).

    I've posted literally thousands of times now, mostly with patience and civility, and now I'm sliding into confrontational and arrogant posting. I guess it's because I'm really tired of the level of misinformation and its use for partisan politics. This matter should not have achieved this political hot potato status. It's simply a matter of pubic health, and we should have been united to combat it.

    But frustrated or not, I shouldn't direct this anger at fellow posters here, so I apologize if I have offended someone. I guess I should get some sleep. It's 2:49 AM!!! What the hell am I doing here at this time, and being obnoxious to boot? OK, so, good night everybody, sorry for my uncharacteristic style today, and see you all tomorrow.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2020
  10. MiaBleu

    MiaBleu Well-Known Member

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    Nice to "meet" you. ;-) I think I will be more active on here now. I enjoy reading your posts and fid them informative .and refreshing.
     
  11. MiaBleu

    MiaBleu Well-Known Member

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    I totally understand. I hear you. Good nite Stay healthy.
     
  12. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    agree, though even Fauci has been known to lie for Trump, and even praise him, anyone that works for the Trump admin has to walk a fine line of loyalty to keep their jobs
     
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  13. MiaBleu

    MiaBleu Well-Known Member

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    You are absolutely right about that. Trump is quite tyrannical. Not an effective leader for a democracy.
     
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  14. Derideo_Te

    Derideo_Te Well-Known Member

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    Do you have a CREDIBLE link to support that allegation of yours?
     
  15. Derideo_Te

    Derideo_Te Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]
     
  16. Derideo_Te

    Derideo_Te Well-Known Member

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    http://www.politicalforum.com/index.php?threads/8-million-have-slipped-into-poverty.579948/

    This was happening under your wannabe Fascist-in-Chief's watch BEFORE he screwed up the Pandemic response.

    https://www.brookings.edu/blog/the-...here-arent-enough-good-jobs-to-go-around/amp/
     
  17. Kal'Stang

    Kal'Stang Well-Known Member

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    And yet over all this surge is affecting them less. Perhaps people in red states are taking more precautions than those on the left are trying to portray.
     
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  18. Derideo_Te

    Derideo_Te Well-Known Member

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    Of course you have ZERO in the way of SUBSTANTIATION to support that allegation.

    We have BETTER treatments NOW that we had ORIGINALLY but that has NOTHING at all to do with INFECTION RATES. Instead it only relates to improved OUTCOMES following infections.

    Thanks to the FAILURE of RED states to properly implement Masks and Social Distancing protocols and precautions there is NOW an even MORE INFECTIOUS mutated strain of the the virus that was discovered in TEXAS.

    https://www.houstonmethodist.org/ne...apid-spread-and-potential-for-mutant-viruses/

    These kinds of MUTATIONS enabled by the FAILURE to embrace MITIGATION strategies could end up NULLIFYING the effectiveness of vaccines.
     
  19. (original)late

    (original)late Banned

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    The surge is a counterexample...

    Definition of counterexample
    : an example that refutes or disproves a proposition or theory
     
  20. CenterField

    CenterField Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Complications of the flu:1% at most, if that many.
    Of Covid-19: 10 to 20%.
     
  21. CenterField

    CenterField Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes, it is. Look at post #90.
     
  22. Kal'Stang

    Kal'Stang Well-Known Member

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    I do not see post 90. More than likely it is from one of the two people that I have put on ignore. However as the link in post 3 shows, no it isn't the case.
     
  23. LoneStarGal

    LoneStarGal Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The endothelial cells are also impacted by several sub-strains of influenza, leading to a cytokine storm, which can in turn lead to damage to the brain, spleen, thymus, kidney, liver and heart.

    https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/ahe.12521
     
  24. LoneStarGal

    LoneStarGal Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Perhaps lay people are grouping influenza, pneumonia and Covid together because the CDC is doing the same.

    upload_2020-10-18_6-1-46.png


    The NCHS in tabulating and grouping mortality data for pneumonia, influenza and Covid on one graph for comparison. They use the acronym PIC for pneumonia, influenza and Covid.

    https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/covid-data/covidview/index.html

    Perhaps you should "sigh" at the CDC and NCHS.
     
  25. Derideo_Te

    Derideo_Te Well-Known Member

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    This is a far better chart since it shows Influenza deaths, Covid deaths and COMBINED deaths.

    [​IMG]

    It is patently OBVIOUS that there is NO comparison between SEASONAL Flu deaths and Covid deaths.
     
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