Obama would veto Iran bill

It is a game. they play this silly game to get more points from Iran. It is not important what they are playing, our rights is clear for us.

 

Good, a veto of any sanctions bill will be a positive thing, sanctions kill, we shall never know how many lives have already been saved by this interim deal with Iran.

My husband has relatives in Iran, they have trouble getting things like medicine with the sanctions.

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I am deleting my other comments, realizing I do not really understand your comments.

I assume you oppose these sanctions, if you are from Iran.

 

I don't want to see Iran go nuclear, but neither do I want to see us use sanctions or embargoes to achieve that goal. We've mismanaged Iranian-Western relations since World War II. Both sides need to talk and heal.

 

I live in Iran. Sanction makes some problem for us but the condition is not bad as you think. It is Zionist media propaganda that always want to show a dark
feature of Iran. here is a report from Reuters about American's cars in Iran:

http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/wo...lers-whet-irans-appetite-for-u-s-muscle-cars/

 

I saw a Rick Steeve's documentary where he traveled to Iran as a tourist. The atmosphere seemed to be that a lot of Iranians didn't seem to hold animosity toward Americans, just our government's actions over the past few decades. America gets too cocky for our own good. We need to be humbler on the world stage. The American Eagle has arrows and olive branches, we need to use the olive branches first. Only as a last resort should we employ the arrows.

Though I will say this, if Iran ever tries to attack Israel, Iran will more than likely end up on the short end of that stick. Israel's military is arguably the best in the world. I do not want to see an Israeli-Iranian War for the sakes of both countries and the entire region.

 

I'm afraid that a long-term peace in the region is an anathema insofar as US interests are concerned.

 

Not from what I can see.

If there is peace in the Middle East region, the United States can lower its military presence in the region, endorse more tourism, strike trade deals, and invest in the growing economies of the region.

 

Yes, that would be the sensible approach. However, US historical ties to the industrial-military complex necessitate the continuation of the insane perpetual war logic- a kind of creation of a wilderness whereby peace (of sorts) is the eventual outcome. US-Israeli interests are mutually reinforcing and peace predicated on justice ( the only peace worthy of the name) is anomalous to this outcome.

 

The majority of Iranians don't want war between Iran and Israel. In fact we don't want any war between Iran and her neighbors. It was Saddam started war against Iran 32 years ago and other Arab states and most west states including the US support him. Zionist propaganda wants to show us militant because there are a lot of benefits for them.

 

We supported Saddam because we weren't going to support a country that had held our own people hostage for 444 days. Was a diplomatic move. The whole Iran-Iraq War was basically a no-win situation for us. We shouldn't have supported either side because both sides were doing some pretty abhorrent tactics. Had Iran won, the Shia anti-American rhetoric would have gotten a boost. Had Iraq won, the Sunni Ba'athist cause would have gotten the boost.

Then again, the stalemate still ended up screwing us, because we had to fight the Iraqi Army in Kuwait and then still had to deal with the rhetoric from Tehran.

I do have some solid hopes for Rouhani though. He seems like he could become the best leader Iran may have ever had.

 

Let the diplomats do their jobs, it can be slow process but they are at the table now. If things go south then punish Iran, otherwise why try and sink the deal before one is made? I cant believe I agree with Obama, wow

 

Abject nonsense, Iran obtaining regional hegemony and nuclear weapons would be anathema to humanities interests in the region, the U.S. welcomes peace it is not the U.S. that holds annual death to Iran rallies it is not the U.S. who took the Iranian embassy hostage destroying any chance whatsoever for a normal diplomatic relationship following the revolution. In fact it is Iran that has been exporting their Islamic fundamentalist "revolution" since 1979 in order to sew sectarian strife through the region.

 

What about Mosaddegh?

Rouhani is the President, but Khamenei is the leader.

Personally I think the US government's position on Iran is morally repugnant, and the position of the British government isn't much better. We overthrew Iran's democratically elected Prime Minister and installed a brutal dictator, and have placed Iran under sanctions ever since the Iranian people overthrew the brutal dictator that we installed. We also supported Saddam's war of aggression against Iran as you have mentioned, and we still think it's our place to tell Iran what it can and cannot do!

Iran hasn't started any wars of aggression for probably hundreds of years, and it isn't threatening to attack anyone. It's civilian nuclear energy program does not contravene standard IAEA protocols, and to date there is not one shred of substantiated evidence that Iran has ever pursued nuclear weapons, despite MSM claiming that Iran has been ''close to'' building nuclear weapons ever since the mid-1980s.

While Israel, which is in contravention of numerous UN Resolutions and international law, has a real clandestine nuclear weapons program and a history of attacking and occupying several other countries in recent years, is threatening to attack Iran. And if the warmongers in the US get their way, the US will directly support it.

Can there be any doubt who holds the moral high ground?

 

We get it, America represents the essence of all that's good in the world, is the paragon of peace and has never attacked anybody except in self defence.

 

That was arguably the start of the ill-considered policy toward Iran on America's part.

Yes, Rouhani is the President and Khamenei is the Supreme Leader. However, I believe the powers of the Supreme Leader are only to be used in case the President oversteps his bounds. I think the Supreme Leader is still accountable to a body of Islamic clerics though. Don't quote me on that, I'm not familiar at all with the Iranian political system.

I agree our history with them is abhorrent.

However, Iran is a party to the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty and has signed and ratified the same. It is the international community's duty then to hold Iran to their treaty obligations.

Iran's nuclear program is still somewhat shrouded in secrecy.

The United States has a mutual-defense treaty with Israel. All of Israel's wars, except for the Six Day War, were started by the Arab States. In the Six Day War, Israel preemptively struck because of the mounting evidence that the massed armies at their borders were poised to attack at any moment. They occupied the territory they did to ensure a secure border between themselves and their potential enemies. While I do agree that Jordan and Egypt have sworn off attacking Israel, Syria is still a hostile nation as is Lebanon by their virtue of allowing Hezbollah to run rampant throughout their territory.

I support a two-and-a-half state solution to the Arab-Israeli conflict. Israel and Palestine are each entitled to be sovereign nation-states. However, neither state should have territorial control of the holy sites, those should be put into a multinational UN-overseen trust territory to ensure equal access for adherents to the three Abrahamic religions. As for defense, it should be a joint venture between Israel and Palestine so that both parties are protected by the other. I haven't figured out how the defense would work though.

 

The Supreme Leader appoints half of the members of the body of clerics you are referring to, and the President answers to them as well.

So if Iran signed off the NPT and kicked the IAEA inspectors out like North Korea did, then the international community would have no business interfering in Iran's nuclear program, in the same way that the international community does not interfere in Israel's nuclear program?

Iran's nuclear program is probably the most rigorously inspected and prolific nuclear program in the world.

That's simply not true. The only time since 1948 that Israel has been attacked by another country, where Israel did not attack that country or one of it's allies first, was when Saddam fired scud missiles at Israel during the Gulf War.

This has been discussed on this forum before.

http://www.politicalforum.com/showthread.php?t=313440

And in 1948, the UK supported the Arab armies to a far greater extent, than any country (such as Iran) supports any of Israel's enemies nowadays. The Arab Legion, which was not only trained and supplied by the UK but was also commanded by British officers, had previously been operating in Palestine under the British authorities, during the Mandate.

Israel's history is not like you think.

US intelligence reported at the time that it was Israel that was pressing to begin hostilities, and that the Arab troop movements were defensive in nature, in anticipation of the Israeli attack.

Israel lied to the UN Security Council claiming that Egypt had attacked first, then changed it's story claiming that it ''preemptively'' attacked Egypt, when US intelligence eventually worked out that Israel was lying.

So, what makes you think Israel told the truth, after having been caught lying? What makes you think that ''preemptive attack'' wasn't just another lie?

It is not unusual for a country that has been attacked and/or occupied by it's neighbour, to be ''hostile'' towards that neighbour. Remember, Israel still occupies Syria's Golan Heights. The sole reason Hezbollah came to exist in the first place, was to defend Lebanon from the Israeli occupation.

Why should Lebanese citizens not be allowed to form a ''well regulated militia'' to defend their country from a foreign invasion?

If it's ok for the US to have a defense agreement with Israel, why should Syria not have one with Hezbollah?

 

Correct in Iran all national candidates must be pre-approved by the Guardian Council, half of the Guardian Council is selected directly by the Supreme Leader the other half are selected by the Majilis (who again are pre-screened by the Guardian Council) out of a list of jurists who are selected by the head of the Judiciary who is selected directly by the Supreme Leader, and the Assembly of Experts who choose the Supreme Leader are chosen amongst a pre-screened list vetted by the Guardian Council.

And the expediency council which solves disputes between the pre-screened Majilis and the directly and indirectly selected Guardian Council is selected directly by the Supreme Leader.

Iran is a theocratic dictatorship in which gays are executed for being gay, women are executed for sex outside of marriage, and all non-Muslims are living under religious apartheid.

False, the Shah was the Constitutional head of state, Mossadeq was appointed by the Shah and ratified by the Majiles, after his appointment as Prime Minister, because he was not granted direct control over the military he illegally dissolved the Majiles (Iranian Parliament) through a fraudulent national referendum in which he garnered a 99.9% yay vote, and granted himself dictatorial "emergency" powers.

Actually the theocrats supported the ousting of Mossadeq and only turned against the Shah when he instituted reforms including taking the educational system out of the hands of the clerics and granting women the vote. As to U.S. support for Iraq this is a long held misconception, the U.S. only provided Iraq with non-military items; such as, helicopters and bulldozers which were retrofitted for military use after delivery, the Iraqi disclosures to the UN make it abundantly clear that it was not the U.S. but rather Germany, France, etc. who provided Iraq with the chemical precursors and expertise necessary for chemical weapons production, and Iraq's conventional weapons came not from the U.S. but from the Soviets and France hence why they fly MIGs and Mirages not F-16s, why they shoot AK-47's and not M-16s, and why they drive T-52s and not M1-A1 Abrams.

Iran has committed thousands of acts of war against the U.S. and Israel through their Hezbollah proxies who were created, are funded, armed, and trained by Iran and take their orders directly from Tehran.

Except in their annual "death to America" rallies.

Not according to the IAEA.

Those are non-binding UNGA resolutions and do not have the force of international law, they are propaganda passed by the OIC dominated General Assembly.

Israel is not a signatory of the Non-Proliferation Treaty.

Israel has never engaged in an aggressive war, every single war they have been forced into was the result of Arab aggression and numerous acts of war including the illegal closing of the Straights of Tiran which are international waters, along with hundreds of Egyptian sponsored Fedayeen terror attacks and cross border raids.

Actually it is Iran that threatened to erase Israel from the pages of history, and they are, also, mentioned in the annual death to America rallies.

 

God Bless Obama for trying to stop Iran from getting a nuclear weapon and being bold on this issue. I don't agree with most of the things he has done or is doing but this is one thing I support him on one hundred percent. Economically starving people only pisses them off more and they see their government officials still living the high life but instead of blaming their own government they rightfully blame US for not being adults about the whole thing and talking to people. The Iranians love America and it's culture so to continue to starve them is a silly move. To attack them would be worse because they are also very nationalistic even though they don't always support their government. Obama is trying his best with this one and I wish the right would grow up and instead of trying to be obstructionists try to do their darn job and make the world a little better for everyone.

 

In Iran all national candidates must be pre-approved by the Guardian Council, half of the Guardian Council is selected directly by the Supreme Leader the other half are selected by the Majilis (who again are pre-screened by the Guardian Council) out of a list of jurists who are selected by the head of the Judiciary who is selected directly by the Supreme Leader, and the Assembly of Experts who choose the Supreme Leader are chosen amongst a pre-screened list vetted by the Guardian Council.

And the expediency council which solves disputes between the pre-screened Majilis and the directly and indirectly selected Guardian Council is selected directly by the Supreme Leader.

Iran is a theocratic dictatorship in which gays are executed for being gay, women are executed for sex outside of marriage, and all non-Muslims are living under religious apartheid.

Complete abject nonsense, in '56 and '67 the Arabs illegally closed the international water way, this coupled with the closure of the Suez canal was intended to destroy the Israeli economy, in '56 Egypt had the right to close the Suez Canal but in '67 it was a violation of the armistice agreement which followed the war of '56, in both '56 and '67 the illegal blockade of the Straights of Tiran were overt acts of war, in both '56 and '67 Israel had suffered hundreds of attacks by Arab Fedayeen who were trained, armed, funded, and directed by Egypt. In 1973 the Arabs directly invaded Israel in an unprovoked war of conquest in their attempts to push Israel into the sea.

Hezbollah is not a well regulated militia it is an internationally recognized terrorist organization that has been ordered by the UNSC to disarm. Hezbollah is not there to defend Lebanon from Israel they are there to control Lebanon on behalf of their masters in Syria and Iran, moreover, their manifesto explicitly rejects any peace negotiations and calls for no peace except through the destruction of Israel.


“Israel is a state which was made to be an army. If we could destroy this army and we will destroy it God willing; if we could crush this army and we will crush it God willing; if we could perish this army and we will perish it in Lebanon God willing, what future will remain for Israel? Maybe on that day we did not need soldiers to reach Bint Jbeil….. If the Israeli army was crushed in Lebanon, it is not unlikely that God would bless us to reach in buses and vans Al Aqsa Mosque.”

We are often asked: Who are we, the Hizballah, and what is our identity? We are the sons of the umma (Muslim community) - the party of God (Hizb Allah) the vanguard of which was made victorious by God in Iran. There the vanguard succeeded to lay down the bases of a Muslim state which plays a central role in the world. We obey the orders of one leader, wise and just, that of our tutor and faqih (jurist) who fulfills all the necessary conditions: Ruhollah Musawi Khomeini. God save him!

By virtue of the above, we do not constitute an organized and closed party in Lebanon. nor are we a tight political cadre. We are an umma linked to the Muslims of the whole world by the solid doctrinal and religious connection of Islam, whose message God wanted to be fulfilled by the Seal of the Prophets, i.e., Muhammad. This is why whatever touches or strikes the Muslims in Afghanistan, Iraq, the Philippines and elsewhere reverberates throughout the whole Muslim umma of which we are an integral part. Our behavior is dictated to us by legal principles laid down by the light of an overall political conception defined by the leading jurist (wilayat al-faqih).

We call upon all of them to pick the option of Islamic government which, alone, is capable of guaranteeing justice and liberty for all. Only an Islamic regime can stop any further tentative attempts of imperialistic infiltration into our country.

To the Christians
If you, Christians, cannot tolerate that Muslims share with you certain domains of government, Allah has also made it intolerable for Muslims to participate in an unjust regime, unjust for you and for us, in a regime which is not predicated upon the prescriptions (ahkam) of religion and upon the basis of the Law (the Shari’a) as laid down by Muhammad, the Seal of the Prophets.

Because there war against Israel is offensive not defensive.


The Necessity for the Destruction of Israel

We see in Israel the vanguard of the United States in our Islamic world. It is the hated enemy that must be fought until the hated ones get what they deserve. This enemy is the greatest danger to our future generations and to the destiny of our lands, particularly as it glorifies the ideas of settlement and expansion, initiated in Palestine, and yearning outward to the extension of the Great Israel, from the Euphrates to the Nile.

Our primary assumption in our fight against Israel states that the Zionist entity is aggressive from its inception, and built on lands wrested from their owners, at the expense of the rights of the Muslim people. Therefore our struggle will end only when this entity is obliterated. We recognize no treaty with it, no cease fire, and no peace agreements, whether separate or consolidated.

We vigorously condemn all plans for negotiation with Israel, and regard all negotiators as enemies, for the reason that such negotiation is nothing but the recognition of the legitimacy of the Zionist occupation of Palestine. Therefore we oppose and reject the Camp David Agreements, the proposals of King Fahd, the Fez and Reagan plan, Brezhnev's and the French-Egyptian proposals, and all other programs that include the recognition (even the implied recognition) of the Zionist entity.

http://www.cfr.org/terrorist-organizations-and-networks/open-letter-hizballah-program/p30967



We categorically reject any compromise with Israel or recognizing its legitimacy This position is definitive, even if everyone recognizes "Israel".

Our stance on the negotiations and compromises made by the Madrid Conference,the "Araba Valley retrospect" the "Oslo Accords", the "Camp David Accord" is a totalrefusal to any kind of compromise with the Zionist entity, which is based onadmitting its legitimate presence, and giving in what it occupied from the Palestinian Arab and Islamic land. This stance is predetermined and permanent and isn't set for any compromise, even if the whole world admits to "Israel".

http://www.scribd.com/doc/23756177/Hizbollah-s-Political-Manifesto-2009

 

So non-Muslims live under military laws while Muslims live under civilian laws, like non-Jews in the West Bank live under military laws while Jews live under civilians laws? Can you describe some aspects of this alleged religious apartheid in Iran?

Do you not accept that the 1953 coup really happened?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d'état

Are you a coup denier?

US support for Saddam is well documented. It's pointless to try to pretend otherwise.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_support_for_Iraq_during_the_Iran–Iraq_war

It is not uncommon for countries that invade other countries, to have acts of war committed against them. If Lebanon was to invade Israel for example, Israel would surely retaliate by committing acts of war against Lebanon.

That is not a threat of military action.

So why don't you cite whatever standard IAEA protocols you think Iran has contravened?

Israel is in violation of several UNSC Resolutions. The last General Assembly Resolutions passed against Israel were voted for by 166 members states.

The facts dispel your hasbara.

So you reckon the international community would have no business telling Iran what to do WRT it's nuclear program, if Iran signed off the NPT?

Or would you use double standards there?

So whenever Hamas fires rockets at Israel you must blame the Israeli blockade on Gaza, or do you apply double standards there as well?

No, Iran has not threatened to do anything to Israel. Iran would have ''the regime occupying Jerusalem vanish from the page of time,'' in the same way that the apartheid regime in South Africa ''vanished from the page of time.''

Equal rights for all people, regardless of race or religion, is the real existential threat that Israel faces.

 

None of which are actually attacks by another country. Before declaring something to be ''complete abject nonsense,'' it's a good idea to ensure that you are referring to what was actually said.

Like I said: ''The only time since 1948 that Israel has been attacked by another country, where Israel did not attack that country or one of it's allies first, was when Saddam fired scud missiles at Israel during the Gulf War.''

BS. No part of Israel was invaded in 1973.

It is not unusual for countries to resist foreign military occupations, by attacking the occupying foreign military forces.

The presence of hostile foreign troops, is the provocation.

Hezbollah is a militia group, which is evidently well regulated enough to have been the most successful fighting force to date, in terms of resisting an Israeli occupation. Therefore it is reasonable to conclude that Hezbollah is a ''well regulated militia.''

History shows that by far the most Hezbollah has ever done, has been to defend Lebanon from Israel, during the Israeli occupation.

My description of Hezbollah is based on their actions.

Do you really believe Khomenei gives Hezbollah orders?

There's a lot of truth on that page.

Evidently, Hezbollah's views of Israel are also based on Israel's actions.

This is why Lebanon requires an effective deterrent against Israel.

 

It is the political force that also supports a certain aspect of Zionism and not the aspect of Zionism that created that political force you refer to, Zionism is about a homeland for Jews, its not a force in the world that seeks global control, that's just Muslim propaganda, with all due respect for the Palestinians, their quest does not alter the laws of physics.....

 

Since Arabs continued their illegal fight against Israel since 1948 without recognize its right to live in peace, all wars, battles and resulted land conquests by Israel are on the Arab heads in terms of responsibility, if they declare a never ending war they shouldnt whine about losing it.

No, the presence of Israel in general is the provocation for them, the war that was declared in 1948 continued ever since.

So far its the only reason for Israeli attacks, before them it was PLO terror groups, NO terror groups has yet been tested by Lebanon.

 

If Iranians want Western products they can stop threatening her allies.

 

Enthusiasm For west companies to have Iran's market is much more than Iranian's enthusiasm to have west products.

France's Renault, Peugeot seen to profit from Iran deal
http://news.yahoo.com/frances-renault-peugeot-seen-profit-iran-deal-155130389.html