OC Couple Threatened With $500-Per-Meeting Fines For Home Bible Study

Its not a matter of yelling fire, it a matter of what people can do on their property.

They are holding a meeting on their property, their petty neighbors are nothing more than a little bit inconvenienced over the matter.

 

Some of you have compared it to a business. It is not a business. It is private. The "more than 3 people" law is just stupid. Think about that. THREE people. And "up to 50 people" does not mean 50 cars. I had almost that many at a party and only 5 cars were parked on the street.

 

But its a meeting against the city oridinance.

I can almost assure you that if they violated the law with only 6 to 8 people in a quiet manner, that nothing would have been said. But with the larger number comes the inconvience and nuisance.

And, almost always when Christians gather, there is singing envolve. And now days, there could be many musical instruments.

Even though its private property, we still come under the law.

Quantrill

 

Not if it is zoned residential.

 

And up to 50 people is not going to fit into a house and could be anywhere from 10 to 50 cars twice a week.

That's why we have zoning laws.

And do you know that the people who host the meeting are passing an offering plate?

 

Irrelevant, private property.

 

Zoning laws are quite constitutional and what protects the value of your property from being cut if someone decided to start keeping live stock in their back yard or open a restaurant in their home next to yours.

You can always move out into the county if you don't like the residential zoning laws.

 

What makes y'all think 50 people would not fit into the house? Do you have picture or the square feet of the house?

 

When it comes to breaking the law, it's irrelevant that it is private property.

Quantrill

 

Having had gatherings of 30 in my average size house.

 

They are holding a very large meeting on a regular basis. There is a reason we have zoning laws. Yes, you are correct that it is private property, but the effects of the regular meetings are not confined to the property alone. There is traffic, parking, and all manner of other issues that arise from large gatherings.

The bottom line is that when you live in a city, you are subject to the zoning laws and ordinances thereof. This is where we have to test the limits of freedom -- and carefully balance competing interests. Just as the Bible hosts would argue they have a right to have people over to their home, their neighbors are equally justified to argue that they have a right to domestic tranquility. There is no First Amendment issue here -- there are reasonable limits, specifically related to time, manner, and place, and this is clearly one of them.

Were this a one-time event, I doubt anyone would have batted an eye. If you want to have your biweekly Bible meeting with 50 of your closest friends, go to a place where the zoning will permit -- say in a commercially-zoned area within your city limits, or out in the sticks where there is no zoning. My advice would also apply to anyone who wants to have a biweekly Tupperware party with 50 people, or a 50-person swinger's club meeting.

 

If you are unhappy with the ordinance, there is a proper way to change it. If you simply ignore the law, you will be subject to the consequences. I agree that the three-person limit is a bit over-the-top. But this is Mission Viejo we're talking about here -- you can eat off the sidewalks. But there is a price...

 

Are you kidding me? It's completely relevant. There are hundreds of things that you can not do on your own private property. This is what zoning is all about. If you don't like zoning laws, you are free to move to a location where there aren't any. But then don't complain when the guy across the highway piles up 50 junk cars in his front lawn... Or when the kids down the way have a rave that goes to 5:30 in the morning.

 

Strawman, no one is suggesting farm animals. All there were doing was having a peaceful meeting at their house. They ought to shoot anyone who comes to their house preventing such an assembly of minds.

 

I wouldn't call it a strawman at all. Doesn't matter if it's farm animals, Tupperware parties, or a sex club in the basement -- the zoning laws exist to keep people from engaging in activities that interfere with the intended purpose of the zone. In the case of residential zoning, residents are justified in having a general expectation of peace and quiet. Again, reasonable restrictions on the First Amendment are wholly constitutional, respective of time, manner, and place.

 

Which -- BTW -- is why I suggested here that this thread is mis-titled. It should be called "Violating City Ordinance" not "Home Bible Study."

 

It's happened in my own neighborhood, THAT is why we have zoning laws. 50 people at a residence for meetings twice a week, not in my neighborhood, go rent a hall or have it at the church, that's what you get tax breaks for.