Off the Chart Universal and Multiversal Models.

Hollywood tends to use the word Dimension in such a sentence as...."I met myself in an Alternate Dimension.".....as Hollywood tends to use the word Dimension or Another Dimension to describe the Many Worlds Model of a Alternate Divergent Universal State of Reality.

Now that is the Many Worlds Model but there is another Model and this is the Multiversal Model.

The difference between the two is that in the Multiversal Model there are Infinite in number Many Worlds Models and the use of the word WORLDS is not a good one in this case as what it really is would be Infinite in number Alternate Universal Baseline Reality Groupings.

Each GROUPING would have an infinite number of Divergent Universal States based upon the different from every other infinite in number GROUPINGS.....Natural Universal Physical Laws.

Supposedly our Universe exists as a part of an Infinite in number Divergent Universes all having the same natural set of Physical Laws.

But as well in any INFINITE SYSTEM....there cannot be just ONE SET of Natural Universal Physical Laws.....thus along with our infinite in number Divergent Universes within our Baseline Reality Universal Grouping.....there is also an infinite number of Alternate Baseline Reality Universal Groupings with each GROUPING having infinite numbers of Universes.....and each GROUPING having completely different and perhaps so alien in their nature Universal Physical Laws that we could neither comprehend them or understand the structuring or perhaps lack of structure as we would not have a frame of reference for our very limited Human intelligence to comprehend.

HOWEVER....the MATH....is telling us this must exist.

And there has NEVER been a case in Human History when the MATH said something should exist and then later we found out it didn't.

AboveAlpha

 

Yes....they ran an experiment where they were capable of detecting whether a single Electron would either Ground Out or if it would run a Micro-Motor.

Sometimes the Electron would ground out....sometimes the Electron would run the Motor....but every now and then the experiment showed the Electron doing BOTH.

I will see if I can find that experiment for you.

AboveAlpha

 

In what sense can wave particle duality not be an inherent trait? All it tells us is that our natural human understanding isn't the way the universe actually works, which should not surprise us in the 21st century. The maths surrounding quantum physics is complicated and incomplete, but it's quite consistent with wave particle duality, partially by design. It should give us no information, for or against, multiverses. If it had that resolution, people would have made sensible experiments.

I doubt that the equations you are talking about would make any difference to the points I'm trying to make.

 

Well....look at it this way...

We know that mere Observation of Quanta locks in Function and Value...right?

And after the D-Wave experiments we know that it doesn't need be Observation by an Intelligent Life Form like a Human as any Life Form that is capable of Observation as D-Wave used a FLY....that they had trapped in a clear plastic cup that was taped to a Computer Screen when a Digital Video of 4 of D-Waves Quantum Computers being robotically assembled 4 years previous to the viewing by the FLY....caused all 4 D-Wave Quantum Computers to instantly stop being able to Quantum Calculate.

So it can be observation by any Life Form capable of Observation and I would like to see more experiments like that done to see perhaps if a Bacteria or perhaps other Microscopic Single and Multiple Celled Animals without eyes but with capabilities to sense Electrical Fields or perhaps sense Photons in others ways that sight....are also capable of producing Wave Function collapse.

Anyways....once Observation of Quanta occurs....that Quanta be it Photons or Electrons...etc.....has it's Function and Value LOCKED IN....to our specific Divergent Universal State of Reality.

Prior to this such Quanta is in a state of Superposition.

As with Shroady's Cat....that Cat is both Alive and Dead until Observed....as Causality is indeterminate until we look in the box.

The FACT that Wave Function Collapse is DEPENDENT upon Observation of a Sentient Life Form....at least as far as how this is represented by the MATH....is deterministic to the existence of a Multiversal System.

And the MATH also shows us that Many Worlds is too limited as in any Infinite System there cannot be only One Baseline Reality and thus there cannot be only one Universal Grouping.

Any Infinite System must have Infinite Baseline Realities and thus Infinite Universal Groupings.

AboveAlpha

 

Wave function collapse is not dependent on the sentience of the observer. I have done dual slit experiments with simple photon detectors (hardly sentient) and the same effect is observed. Not sure why you'd want to go all the way to quantum computers, there are far simpler experimental setups for the effects you discuss.

Also, maths are constructed by humans, and humans don't know exactly what makes life, so unless one has entered some arbitrary reference to life which isn't actually going to affect the algebra, we couldn't even formulate the maths, let alone determine sentence's impact on physical systems.

Sentience, life and concepts like that are very useful things in order for humans to understand the world, and we are predisposed to find them and assign meaning to them, but have not shown any interesting features with respect to fundamental physics.

 

You don't have to find that experiment for little old me... Besides I'm fairly sure I read something about it somewhere, I just can't remember where.


Since you're working on a Multiversal theory I wanted to check with you on something.

I ran into this news item today: A Theory for Momentum Exchange

What do you think about this? It's a conservation law, but you've said before, on other things, that we don't live in a closed system, so is this an undiscovered area?

 

Look at what you just posted...."Wave function collapse is not dependent on the sentience of the observer."...end quote Swennson.

I am discussing Wave Function collapse due to OBSERVATION.

And I specifically questioned to what degree does an Observer need be sentient in such cases as I am not implying all Wave Function collapse is caused by Observation.

As well we cannot know anything beyond what we observe be it before or after wave function collapse.

This is where the concept of a Multiverse can give us a Model and idea.

I offered to show you some math that raises questions but you stated that you doubted this would have any bearing on the questions you raised.

Well I believe it is the math and ONLY the math that can give us any clues as to what is really going on.

How else can I show anything other than a result?

The experiments involving Quantum Computers give us a LOT to ponder.

AboveAlpha

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Well Photons have zero mass but they have Spin Angular Momentum and the study of the conservation of such momentum is something we really don't understand at all.

AboveAlpha

 

While looking up the "Spin (physics)" article ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spin_(physics) ) in Wikipedia, I saw the matrixes under the section "4 Mathematical formulation > 4.9 Higher spins", and I recalled an imaginary number idea I had in college.


(imaginary number idea, click for larger view)

1. We have a unit circle. I didn't mark the sides but generally there is a positive to negative span in one axis, and there's a positive i (imaginary number) to negative i in the other direction.

2. So I thought how do we draw this negativity? And I realized that we're dealing with the outline not the stuff inside. So I visualized two negative circles "eating out" two sides of the unit circle.

3. So then we have this weird figure.

4. I figured out that we could rotate around the skinny sides so that it will fit over the rounded quarters. One to each side.

5. Then we have two square domains the "1", or real number, and the "i", or imaginary number.

 

We have demonstrated models of the Spin but we do not understand WHY a Photon has such conservation of Spin Angular Momentum.

This is one of the aspects of Quantum Mechanics that is completely at ODD'S with Macro-Level Physics.

Nice one Wga.

AboveAlpha

 

Ooo, this was an interesting progression of ideas:

Spin → angular momentum → spinning tops → gyroscopes defying gravity.

 

I was looking up Newton's third law, and I realized that while gravity and angular momentum are both one dimensional expressions.

Gravity has the gravity constant of the universe and any and all mass activates it.

But angular momentum doesn't have a similar constant so it's free.

And yet they interact somehow. Strange stuff.

 

Wait, wouldn't the spin angular momentum be restricted by the speed of light?

Doesn't accelerating towards the speed of light require increasing energy? And that it can never get to the speed of light? Wouldn't this represent a kind of friction when it's accelerating?

Oh wait I'm thinking of classical motion of large objects while we're talking about spins of subatomic particles. There's no connection.

 

We have no reason to believe that that is how observation works. It is true that we could argue that any measurement does not collapse the wave function until a sentient being observes it, but that argument would not be falsifiable and therefore uninteresting for any discipline which wants to figure out the truth, rather than making stuff up and writing it in caps.

That being said, while I shouldn't say it is impossible that it works that way, it would be arbitrary and roundabout, and the entire explanation reeks of a very human understanding of the world, one that history has deemed unreliable at best. It's like Jesus turning water into wine. It's not like it's impossible that God really cares about alcoholic beverages, but in the grand scheme of things, it sounds more like a plot device than a theosophy.

One can easily use faulty maths to prove pretty much anything, so maths above what I am not only comfortable but confident in would have no point, and judging from your previous posts, I find it very likely that you would go on about parts of the maths that I don't really care about (like the conclusions, rather than its veracity). However, if you must post something of the like, please elaborate exactly how sentience or consciousness is represented in the maths, and some indication of how it would differ from a model in which sentience has no special place.

 

OK....I think you are completely misunderstanding what my intent was and what I was trying to detail out.

The way I am reading your post to me it would appear that for some reason you think that I think that sentience or consciousness is represented in the math.

It's not.

We have no specific reason why Sentient Observation causes Wave Function Collapse however we do have ideas.

And my offering to post the Math was specific to the math showing us that there is a mathematical correlation as far as the ability of a Quantum Processor to self generate all possible calculations and all possible answers to finally and very quickly arrive at only one single calculated answer that is specific to this Divergent Universal State of Reality.

You see it seems apparent that although our Baseline Universal Reality is existing in Infinite Divergent States....that only in a FINITE number of those Divergent States is there Alternate Duplicates of a Quantum Computer we are using in our own Universe computing an answer for a specific question.

The KEY WORDS here being INFINITE and FINITE.....as in some other Divergent Universal State of Reality I did NOT CAP LOCK THIS!! LOL!!!!

That was just for you.

But what I posted is true.

It's like this....not many people are capable of wrapping their heads around the real meaning of an INFINITE SYSTEM.

The very nature of an Infinite System is in it's being numerical without end....and existing in every possible and perhaps impossible to our reality combination and construction or perhaps lack of construction.

But here is where all my words tie in and mean something.

In this Universe I use a Quantum Computer to calculate a simple form of addition being 1 + 3 =

Now as only a single digit is being used the Quantum Computer will be calculating in conjunction with a specific alternate group of itself where only single digit addition in both positive and negative sides of ZERO exist.

Thus in that finite group every single possible single digit addition of both negative and positive numbers is instantaneously generated specific to ever Finite in number version of Alternate Universal reality is represented within that Group.

After this happens Wave Function Collapse specific to locking in a Quantum Processors use of either an Electron or Photon depending upon System Design occurs giving us the answer specific to OUR single divergent universal state of reality where the question of what is 1 + 3 =.....and the answer wave function collapse has specified at the summery of computation is 4.

But this is the ROOT GROUP as there will be Larger Groups existing where all Addition Calculations are instantaneously presented from each existing Divergent Universal State....such as 10 +2 =

Then another Group....2 +10 =

Another group....-11 +17 =

Another group....203 + 89 =

Another group....68 + -738 =

Another group....349 +139 =

And so on to the Infinite...

Then we have groups where in alternate divergent universal states there is subtraction going on...multiplication...division....percentages....etc...etc...etc..

Then we have groups where what is being calculated is not a simple calculator question where say Facial Recognition is being used and say it was using a 27 point Facial Recognition Geometric Calculation with a Algorithmic method to detail skin tone or color....aging over time....air temp. effect on facial skin and temp. average by date and location....another for rain water effect....snow....wind chill....etc.

Or perhaps in another group of Divergent Universal States the Quantum Computers are running Celestial Mechanic Calculations.

The point being that since there would exist an INFINITE number of various possible uses of the Quantum Computer that only a ROOT GROUPING of Alternate Divergent Universal States Quantum Calculation must be used because if all were used....since ALL is INFINITE....the Quantum Computer would NEVER stop calculating.

The Root Grouping Numeric is something that we can look at by looking at Quantum Computational Time passage to get to an answer and by varying the forms of Calculation we can get an idea of just how many Universal Divergent States a specific Root Grouping would have.

Now it is a byproduct of Universal and Multiversal Natural Laws which causes a Quantum Computer to self generate....well...it's actually NOT self generating all possible calculations and answers as they are being presented simultaneously from each existing Alternate Quantum Computer existing within Divergent Universal states within a specific Root Grouping....but they do present themselves.

The Quantum Processor is NOT programmed to do this....they just appear and exist.

That alone is some Math that shows us at the very LEAST EVIDENCE of the existence of a Multiverse or at least a Many Worlds version.

But Many Worlds is too limited to account for all aspects of Quantum Mechanics...thus Multiversal theory.

So now I hope you understand I am not placing any SPECIAL PLACE...as you have said....as far as SENTIENCE.

It is highly likely that a Single Celled Life Form capable of detecting Light or an Electromagnetic Field would basically be be doing a form of OBSERVATION and this would cause Wave Function Collapse.

Wave Function Collapse I believe occurs with or without OBSERVATION and is specific to CONDITION and INTERACTION of Quanta that is apart and comprises a Animate or Inanimate Object is capable of causing Wave Function Collapse.

AboveAlpha

 

There is at least some parapsychological evidence for parts of this in the near death experience of Gary Plumley.

He was clearly shown...… that his guide during his tenth brush with death/ tenth heart attack, was HIMSELF..... but a much much older version of Gary Plumley.

 

This sure ties in with Chapter 13 of Stephen Hawking's Universe, (The Anthropic Principle), where Dr. Hawking postulates an infinite number of universes in which electromagnetism, gravity, weak and strong nuclear force are at such different magnitudes than they are in our universe that...… no life evolves there..... .and that universe would be defined as "unsuccessful" if no intelligent life was there!

 

I may very well have misunderstood. This is why I focus so much on figuring out exactly what people mean, and why I ignore any supposed conclusions until I understand the way to conclude them myself (which in turn is why I don't particularly want to see maths).

From what I can gather from your post, you link quantum computing with multiverse interpretations of quantum physics, but since at our level of limited knowledge, there are many valid interpretations of quantum physics which deal perfectly well with quantum computing, I think your focus on that particular interpretation is premature.

 

Well I would agree with you if it were not a fact that depending upon the complexity of a calculation and the time it takes a Root Group of calculations and answers to present themselves allows us to know that the variations of time passage of the presented single answer presented due to wave function collapse specific to our one single divergent universal state of reality gives us an idea of the number of divergent universal states existing within any root group.

Now perhaps there is something else at work and responsible for this but it sure as hell falls in line with what the Multiversal Model we have created tells us should happen.

AboveAlpha

 

Light or Photons do not accelerate although they can be made to travel slower if they are in effect slowed down by passing through certain materials but the moment they exit that material they instantly obtain light speed again.

AboveAlpha

 

Maybe I don't understand spin angular momentum. I was thinking about it spinning like a top.

 

You have to remember that Gravitational effect is generated by both Mass and Dark Matter.

We have no idea what Dark Matter is but we do know that without it the stars along the outside rims of spiral galaxies could not be held in orbit and would be thrown out into intergalactic space as there does not exist enough regular matter of mass to generate the necessary gravitational effect to hold such stars in their outer galactic orbits.

Dark Matter is doing this.

And when one thinks that Dark Matter and Dark Energy comprise over 96% of the Universe....well it's kind of freaky.

AboveAlpha

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Just run a search and it will detail it out.

AboveAlpha

 

Oh, is spin angular momentum that corkscrew-like drawing where they show a sine wave in 3-D?

As for dark matter and dark energy I'm just waiting for someone to come up with an idea to explain it to me.

For all I know, when I was a kid I thought there was a giant "monster" trying to flow through the universe from porous holes to the outside. And it had gotten stuck and it needed to pass completely through to get out... But it's body was made of infinite strands. Strands that fed right back into the "monster's" main body blob and back into strands running into the Universe. How does it get out? Strange stuff.

 

It is really difficult to explain as far as the spin....you have to look at Geometric representations.

As far as Dark Matter and Dark Energy we really have absolutely no idea what they are....but we can see their effects.

AboveAlpha

 

Your first paragraph-sentence reads a bit like word salad. Are you saying the time it takes for a quantum computer calculation depends on the number of involved universes?

Falling in line with a particular theory is not really interesting unless it also doesn't fall into any other (or the theory is very narrow). Of course, any model should be considered, but to my mind, the main redeeming feature of multiverse theories tend to be the ability to be easily conceptualised, especially by people who don't know a lot of physics.

Edit: I'm finding that my arguments are lacking teeth here, in that there is nothing inherently wrong with people going on about any particular theory, so I went back and looked at what brought me to that point. It seems to me that whenever I have a question, you bring in another field of study, and a lot of the times, you indicate that your understanding of it is not in line with the most common understandings of things, making me ask more questions and not actually getting any answers. As such, I'd ask that you go back to some of my questions and try to answer them without bringing up topics that will require another level of explanation. Some examples are:

 

OK....as far as Particle/Wave Duality.

Everyone who thinks they have a grip on Particle/Wave Duality being an inherent trait of just our one Universe really do not have a grip.

How do I know this?

Because of NT Factor and Behavior of Quanta in Particle State.

We can use the Double Slit Experiment as well as other experiments such as the one that shows us that a single Electron can have more than one function and value.

How is this possible?

How is it possible that we can detect a single electron having multiple function as in an experiment a single Electron both powered a Micro-Electric Motor and at the same time Grounded out and was detected having dual function thus dual value?

Well there is some Theoretical Math that can describe this but then again just about anything can be calculated using such Math so I will save you from the calculations and just use logic.

We know we only were using a single electron but yet it obtained dual function and value as if it was 2 Electrons and the experiment has been repeated and checked over and over again to make certain no other factors were involved.

Now those Physicists who do not suscribe to Multiversal Theory will say that the ability of a single Electron to have more than one function and value state that such behavior is an inherent trait to just ONE Universal Reality but if that was true then it would screw up Quantum Entanglement.

You can't have Quantum Entanglement and QE is not a theory as we currently use it in Quantum Processors....if a single electron has dual or multiple functionality and value.

Dual or Multiple Functionality is actually accounted for when Probability is indeterminate to a point that causality and action and reaction obtains a probability that is 50/50.

There are some instances where...and I will use this example.....say we have a Single Atom Thick Filament of Copper....and this Filament continues on and it splits into a fork of 2 single atom thick filaments.

A single electron is conducted down the single atom thick copper filament and the electron comes to the fork in the road and every single possible Chaos Theory Path altering variance has been removed to that the electron has EXACTLY the same conditions for it to conduct along either of the two single copper atom thick filament that branches off from the one filament.

The probability exists at exactly 50/50.

At the end of each of the 2 filaments is an electron detector.

The SINGLE electron is conducted down the single filament line and then as it comes to the fork for some reason registers at BOTH ENDS of the 2 filament single copper atom lines.

WHY?

HOW?

Well I can only theorize but I am fairly certain that at a moment of exact 50/50 Probability where I also believe Virtual Quark/Antiquark existence is registering within all Hadrons within the copper atoms along both single atom filaments that fork...are also at a Numerical Medium within those Hadrons.

I believe that this either causes or is a result of a STALL in the creation of a New Alternate Divergent Universal State of Reality and that a second Electron is generated into our Universal reality from another.

AboveAlpha