Governments founded upon religious teachings and beliefs are always discriminatory and tyrannical. I can think of no exceptions to this rule.
You mean like Hamas Article One: The Islamic Resistance Movement: The Movement's programme is Islam. From it, it draws its ideas, ways of thinking and understanding of the universe, life and man. It resorts to it for judgement in all its conduct, and it is inspired by it for guidance of its steps.
I find the Hamas Charter and the Israeli Declaration of Independence to be equally offensive as neither are based upon protecting the inalienable Rights of the Individual and both excuse such violations.
The ' Hamas Charter ' is an unsigned document from the 1980s. Even so, it's a mild document when compared with , say, David ben Gurion's recorded speeches of the 1940's calling for the ethnic cleansing of arabs from a future ' Zionist homeland '. I think his term was ' brutal compulsion ', dixon. Any comment ? Anybody else think that these recent fascist laws from the Knesset are an attempt to continue ben Gurion's ' brutal compulsion ' theme ?
I believe at one time, the Palestinians were happy to accept any settlers who wished to take Palestinian citizenship. If that situation has changed, is it down to the nastiness of the Palestinians, or the terrorism visited on Palestinian civilians by Jewish settlers? Given that Israel erects walls and various other methods such as checkpoints to keep out what they perceive as "Palestinian terrorists"......why would anyone consider that, given a plethora of rabid Zionists with guns and no self control living cheek by jowl with Palestinians, a Palestinian state would not be less confrontational by expecting Israel to take their homegrown terrorists back. I don't think, having listened to a programme or two about Israel/Palestine, that all settlers are terrorists....but as with the Palestinians.....the minority get the majority a bad name.....and everybody suffers the consequences. I've always wondered, if the whole idea of the settlers was to live in "Judea and Samaria" for historical/nostalgic reasons ....what difference does it make what country it is in? After all, the area has not been called "Judea and Samaria" for at least fifteen hundred years.....but the absence of a specific name does not remove the land, or any connection to it you feel.......unless of course, the intention was land grab and not achieving the dream of returning to your roots.
It is one thing to have immigration where people join the existing citizens and resident to share a homeland. It is completely different for outsiders to move in and violate the rights of those to who a territory is a homeland. The British Mandate for Palestine invited Jews to share the homeland of Palestine with the existing Palestinians (whether Jewish, Arab or other) and expressly prohibited the violation of the civil rights of the existing residents. The Zionists ignored the prohibition against violating the civil rights of the non-Jewish citizens and residents of Palestine in creating the aparthied state of Israel.
I agree that zionist ruined the flavor And anyone who reads the history also can find that zionsts did not like the british because it never said palestine was 'israel' or a land for jews and they began the 'terrorism' of the middle east by blowing up brittsh interests. ie..... the bigots have always been the terrorists of the middle east and again, few know these facts. [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gah_cu3czvc"]Zionists invented Modern Terrorism - YouTube[/ame]
There is nothing wrong with a Jewish State. United Nations resolution 181, which Palestine refers to when justifying the legality of a state, calls for dividing Palestine into an Arab and a JEWISH state.
Yes, Yes, Yes. But, above all it is a Jewish State with the right of return reserved for only Jewish peoples. Moi No
Maybe off topic, but all of this 'neo zionist' talk on these forums as of late, led me to do a google search of the term and I came upon this ridiculous article written by an Israeli jewish leftist. Luckily she is not a member of this board so I will say that after reading her first paragraph, I can honestly say she has little credibility. I refuse to remain silent when my country is hijacked by a group of racist religious Jews, who are much more of a threat to Israel than any Arab or Muslim country, including Iran. Led by the yet another shameful religion-based politician, Eli Ishay -- the current Minister of Internal Affairs -- this group is a worse threat than the Palestinians, the Iranians, Hezbollah, and even Hamas. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dana-agmon/neozionism-israels-true-t_b_749519.html I would expect nothing less of the huffington post, resorting to ultra leftist Israeli contributors to promote their xenophobic hatred for the jewish state of Israel. Eli Yishai is a greater threat to Israel than Hamas? Is this some sort of sick joke? I love how she says Iran, Hezbollah, and even Hamas...as if the first two are slightly better than the latter. And I love how people say, 'the majority of the world is opposed to Israel' as if that matters where morality is concerned. Guess what? The majority of Europe and the Middle East were against the jewish people back during the holocaust, does that make them right? Even a large portion of Americans and English were antisemitic during ww 2. Most people that say "neo-zionist" on here don't even know what the term really means, just like they don't understand the term "neo-conservative", which actually denotes a group of conservatives who are far more liberal than traditional conservatives and believe in spreading freedom and in nation building, both liberal ideas. People like to say "neo-zionist" because it sounds like a cool way to denigrate israel in their mind, just like how they use the word 'apartheid', most completely unaware that Israel had an arab president and arab idf commanders. It makes me wonder if they even know what true apartheid was in south africa. The leftist israeli paper ha'aretz actually was caught misquoting Eli Yishai on purpose to slander him. Reminded me of George Zimmerman when american outlets doctored tapes and lightened his photo to make him look 'more white'
And the very same people complaining and moaning about a 'jewish state' want a 'palestinian state'! Mind you, another 'palestinian state' besides Jordan which was formed out of the british mandate of palestine for the arabs and is much larger than Israel.
181 was never implemented and Israel declared Statehood unilaterally. Truman, when recognising Israel, crossed out ' jewish ' State from the official document. 25% of Israeli citizens are not jewish. Your fact is correct- but irrelevant.
Actually it is not moon, racial slurs are though so, anti Semites are free to post thread after thread vilifying Jews by using Jews or Zionism as the basis for them but if they actually call a Jew a name then that is not permitted. As proof, I'm sure you remember our racist pal JN and his continual ad nauseam (Ad nauseam is a Latin term for a discussion that has continued so long that it has continued "to [the point of] nausea".[1][2] For example, the sentence "This topic has been discussed ad nauseam" signifies that the topic in question has been discussed extensively, and that those involved in the discussion have grown tired of it.) campaign to vilify Jews only with no pretext of politics whatsoever. His posts still stand even though he is not here.
Israel and the rest of the world are still waiting for the Palestinians to finish implementing it moon. Mod edit,,flounder threads all saying that Israel has yet to do something that a score or more nations have already done. And ten percent of the Arab Republic of Syria are not Arab. Go get 'em!
Under the British Mandate for Palestine the inhabitants were ALL Palestinians, arabs and jews et al. The future Palestine will again be populated by Palestinians- not neoZionist occupiers.
You are correct, the british mandate of Palestine did include palestinian jews and arabs. The arab state was already made, and its larger than the palestinian jewish state of Israel. Its called Jordan. The modern term palestinian was invented after 67 by the PLO, prior to that, egypt occupied gaza, jordan occupied the west bank, and jordan itself was a palestinian arab state cut out of the british mandate, aka transjordan, ruled by a monarchy. The PLO tried to overthrow this monarchy and were expelled in black september. And enought with this 'neo-zionist' stuff. Just say zionist, its more to the point. All neo-zionism represents is religious-natinonal zionist aspirations as opposed to the now defunct secular labor socialist zionist movement. Step back and think about it. Israel will never go away. Accept it, Israel will always exist no matter how much screaming and moaning comes from the pan arabists and anti-zionists. The palestinians, that is the post 67 population of the territories, I don't know what their fate will be, but under Hamas and Fatah their future doesn't look good.
Todays Israelis are , largely, European Zionist immigrants and their offspring. They ethnically-cleansed and killed many hundreds of thousands of indigenous Palestinians leading to the Nakba, the Palestinian term for ' catastrophe '. This is not a good grounding for a legitimate State under modern international law. 'NeoZionism ' is synonymous with many other descriptions of Israeli criminalities- none of them pleasant- and the fact that neoZionists currently control the Israeli parliament does not bode well at all for any claim to Israel's permanence. The history of fascism teaches that it is very unpopular with everybody- except fascists. Attempting to dictate the ' jewish ' character of Israel to its non-jewish citizens, Palestinian citizens, is undemocratic. Democracy and fascism are poles apart and the more Israel ignores the former the closer it comes to the latter.
I'll select the relevant part of #197 and omit the sectarian flamebait. Of course , the numbers are crucial. A single Martian could not declare a Martian State in any country it landed in, likewise 1% Martians , 50% Martians or even a majority of Martians. In a democracy, that is. The non-Martian population have non-Martian character and , for a variety of reasons, are NEVER going to pledge loyalty to a Martian State. Now, the strength of the indigenous opposition to Martian absorption depends , simply speaking, on numbers . In the case of the non-jewish population of Israel their strength is 25%. That's a huge sector of any population and way more than is necessary to claim that Israel's character is NOT solely ' jewish ' . That's an inarguable fact . Of course, a fascist Israeli government could attempt to transfer, ignore or otherwise seek to make a quarter of its citizens disappear because they are NEVER going to pledge loyalty to any State which excludes them. That's when Israel gets into real , real, bad trouble. Democracy abhors fascism.
Wrong, most Israeli jews are mizrahi, meaning they never left the middle east and are proud zionists. Some of the first zionist immigrants came from Iraq and Yemen. Later, the anti-zionist arab and islamic nations decided to 'punish' us for these 'european zionists' you speak of by raping our women, ripping babies apart, and stealing our property and expelling us. The farhud happened prior to the state of Israel, and that wasn't even enough to quench the 'anti-zionist' thirst for blood in the arab world. Close to 1,000,000 jews were driven out of arab and islamic countries or forced to leave due to stolen property and violence against mizrahi jews. Zionism goes back to Yehuda Alkalai, a sefaradi jew, and many sefaradim (and some ashkenazim) have lived in palestine, properly known by jews as eretz yisrael for centuries. But the lie that the majority of Israel is ashkenazi keeps being circulated again and again. They make up the minority, and were victims of the holocaust, which was the fault of hitler and his 'anti-zionist' pan arabist supporters. The mufti spread nazism across muslim parts of europe, and he also caused countless pogroms in the arab world against jews who have lived in Iraq long before the arab imperialism of mesopotamia. In an arabic radio address from berlin, he said "kill the jews wherever you find them". Arafat, an egyptian, was even related to him. I love when people say, why are arabs being punished for the holocaust and not the germans? First off, nobody is being punished. Jews have a right to live in their own land with their own capital Jerusalem (a hebrew word). Secondly, ummm, it wasn't only the germans but also the arabs that participated in the holocaust, and they didn't only slaughter men, women, and children of ashkenazi communites but completely wiped out the sefaradim of bosnia and greece. They also set up concentration camps in north africa. And again, the farhud, one of the worst atrocities to ever happen against mizrahi iraqi jews was nazi inspired. So spare us all the xenophobia and anti-semitism against ashkenazi jews, they suffered enough in the holocaust. They were semites in europe (and killed for it), now they are called europeans in the middle east. Ridiculous and absurd.
Over a million Ashkenazi came in from Russia alone, so you are wrong. However, that's neither there nor there and I have no interest whatsoever in whether the Ashkenazi consider the mizrahi to be ' second class ' jews or not so the discussion won't be diverting from the topic at my instigation. Let's simply note that this ' news ' of Netanyahu's straying from democratic principles was posted here in 2011. It's taken him this long- in the face of fierce opposition- to announce his shabby intent again. With luck and good judgement the Israeli jewish people will join with their fellow Palestinian citizens and throw it out. Might as well also throw out Bibi with the bathwater.
This depends on what judges of Islamic republics decide. Israel cannot be good based on the fact that Islamic republics are even worse.
Ashkenazi Jews are the minority. Most Israeli Jews come from mizrahi and sefaradi backgrounds. I am mizrahi, american, my father is Israeli and is not treated like a second class citizen. You read anti-zionist propaganda. The official language of Israel is sefaradic hebrew, the food is mizrahi, the music, the culture. The biggest myth put out there by anti-zionists is that most israelis are ashkenazi, they make up 45%, they are a minority. Back in the 70s even less than that, mizrahim made up around 70% of the Israeli Jewish population. This changed with the Russians, many of whom are not ashkenazi or at the most 1/4 jewish. The other myth put out there by anti-zionists is that ashkenazim have blond hair and blue eyes and always have pale skin, its ridiculous. Ashkenazi jews look no different than sefaradic jews, a lot have dark hair, eyes, and olive skin, some are darker than others, some even look like they are from yemen. Sites like ziomania are antisemitic and very deceitful. But the bigger issue is color and phenotype shouldnt matter, we are all jews. There are chinese jews that look chinese. Its a nation and a religion. There are black jews, white jews, brown jews, chinese jews, indian jews, yemenite jews, brown skinned ashkenazim, white skinned ashkenazim, white mizrahim, brown mizrahim, red haired sefaradim. None of this matters in Israeli policy..and most israelis don't care about color or your cultural background. Intermarriage rates are very high and soon these labels will be no more. Most sabras are mixed from the three main jewish groups. So many mixes. I am kurdish/baghdadi jewish. Others are iranian/tunisian, spanish/yemenite, moroccan/ashkenazi, egyptian and whatever. Anyway, european jews (ashkenazi and sefaradim) are not 'privleged' they were victims of the greatest genocide humanity has ever faced, and yes part of it was about them having dark skin a middle eastern dna and not being native to europe in customs and language and yes, in some cases, appearance.
