Flash: Jesus no longer saves, no longer heals. What, you say? This from a professed Christian such as I. When Jesus took all of man's sins on the Cross, He did so for ALL of mankind, not just those who would believe in Him as their Lord. You agree? Or has your jaw dropped to the floor? Sin is no longer an issue for our God. That was dealt with over 2,000 years ago. "But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man." [Hebrews 2:9] "And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world." [1 John 2:2] We believers know that Jesus healed the sick, cast out demons, performed miracles and more. In John we read that He gave the power and authority for the apostles to do likewise. And they in turn were to make disciples of all who would believe and they likewise would carry out the same commands that Jesus did. "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father. And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it." [John 12:12-14] Jesus has done His Work. Now, it's us Believers being indwelled with the Holy Spirit that now carry on that work. We have the power and the authority to do so in the name of Jesus. What we are to do is to believe and receive which unleases the power of God through us. Our religious teachings error in that they teach us to ask God to do the healing, but He told us to do the healing in His name. He has given us all we shall ever need, salvation; blessings; healing power; hope; love; etc. Yet we view his Words arse backward thanks to wrong-headed teachings in the Church. Time to get back to the Bible, read what He really says, do not leave your understanding to your Pastor, Priest, television evangelists, etc. Share the Good News for this is His command.
I shall clarify one point. Though ALL men's sin was forgiven and sin is no longer an issue for God, there is the matter of believing in Jesus as your Savior and being transformed. For the one sin that will be judged is the sin of rejecting Jesus. A choice that all men have, most will pick the wrong choice and spend an eternity out of the presence of God. It'd be funny if it weren't so fatal, but God gave told us what the choices were, He even told us what the answer is, but most people are just too much in denial and selfish to accept the Truth.
Two things. First, if people are not to leave their understanding to their Pastor or Priest or evangelist, why should they leave their understanding to you on a message board? Second, according to your interpretation of that passage, you, as a believer in Jesus, have the power to heal in his name. Jesus was against those just 'putting on a show' as I recall; not a fan of fakes that one. That definitely sounds like something that should be applied pragmatically, and not just in gestures of showmanship. Here's how. Find someone, maybe on the news, maybe in a magazine article, possibly at your local hospital or care center that is suffering from cancer or Alzheimer's or some other terrible infirmity or illness, maybe even something as symbolic as blindness, and without telling them you prayed for them or even speaking to them directly, heal them in Jesus' name. Be sure and share all your successes with us. Good luck.
I what the OP claims was true, there would be no more liars walking around. We would all be able to judge, then bury them with out anyone even considering it a loss. ie..... by choice each would have learned the responsibilities (we can and are able)
I actually attempted to post a response earlier this morning, for some reason it did not post. But I did in fact have an opportunity to witness and share what the Word saids about healing to an 87 year old man, a retired Pastor who had a long list of ailments, most painful were his hips. He asked me to pray for him. He didn't care about the other problems, just wanted the pain in his hips to be gone. I told him that our God is bigger than that, that we didn't need to ask for just a partial healing but a healing of his entire body. So I took the power and authority that Jesus promised us and I spoke to the pains and such, believing, then receiving the releasing of God's power in faith and in the name of Jesus. This man later told me that during the prayer when I spoke the name of Jesus a third time he felt a sensation in his body through his hips and believes he was healed. Time will tell whether and when this man will experience a full physical healing, however in his spirit he was healed. With thanksgiving and praise and in God's time our hope is that this will manifest into a physical healing. You believe, you recieve. You doubt, you do without. Praise God. What this has to do with luck as you suggest is not a matter I concern myself with. My faith is in Him, not you and whatever motive you have for suggesting I pray for them without telling them. Why would I do that? Why are you poking fun at me and what I believe when the Word itself speaks to this very issue. No, it is you that needs luck, I need Jesus.
I didn't propose or even suggest either one. Item one was pointing out how you were telling people to think for themselves while telling them what to think, or more clearly, to ignore those whose job description itself is to be knowledgeable about scripture and listen to your interpretations instead before running off to do their own studying. From your post. These are interpretations, every last one; not scripture. Many are brimming with sheer hubris at that. Flash: Jesus no longer saves, no longer heals. Sin is no longer an issue for our God. That was dealt with over 2,000 years ago. Now, it's us Believers being indwelled with the Holy Spirit that now carry on that work We have the power and the authority to do so in the name of Jesus. Our religious teachings error in that they teach us to ask God to do the healing He told us to do the healing in His name. we view his Words arse backward thanks to wrong-headed teachings in the Church. Yep, I did. You contradict that message with your various interpretations. You're basically tell people to ignore what others say the bible means while telling them what several things in the bible mean, and that you know the book(or the lessons more specifically) better than the church. Isn't there a lesson somewhere in there about what happens to the prideful? Did you miss that one? If you're looking for an exact figure, I can't help you. I wouldn't even venture a guess. If you're going to do the research though, find out how many people read the bible and stopped considering themselves believers immediately after. Perhaps. At this juncture it should be obvious that most of what you wrote in that post are your own interpretations and I never suggested anything about you personally until this post and the measure of hubris you applied in some of those interpretations. That should be about as personal as this is going to get on my part. Here's a response I hope you can appreciate, because your post in this forum is antithetical to it: You posted in a public forum. You may not answer everyone that reads what you post, but when they respond to what you posted, you respond to what they post in turn, even if you don't make the effort to type another word. That's the bargain with sharing opinions in a forum. Get used to it. Also, read this when you get a chance: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heart It's a good thing the topic isn't about me personally. Your lack of ESP or clairvoyance would make that a real buzzkill. Let's see. People are suffering the world over, most aren't healed, and this thing where the plan is that all come to believe in His son and not Him specifically sounds way off, considering the bits about having no other gods besides him or worshiping graven images, etc. I'm going to just leave that last interpretation alone, and play along with the first two. If those are God's will, what's He waiting for? The man asked you to pray for him? Not sure I'm buying that as a serious request, but hey, it's possible. So instead of the prayer he requested you went with a sermon instead telling a retired pastor what the bible said about healing, and then decided to try perform a faith healing, again, on a retired pastor, also instead of the actual prayer he asked for. That doesn't sound the slightest bit plausible unless you yourself also happen to be a man of the cloth, and there's been no evidence of that in the slightest. If all that did in fact happen as you describe it, have you considered that he just told you he felt healed just to make you knock off your whole shtick? Maybe he just wanted to be left alone at that point? You've already got your answer about whether it worked or not, in part or in full, and please tell me how you know his 'spirit was healed'(whatever that means). So you 'took the power and authority that Jesus promised us' and are just kinda hoping one day, whenever it rolls around, it maybe possibly will show up in some mysterious way? Impressive stuff there. Nice bumper sticker. Shame it doesn't apply to the real world. I wished you luck in testing these articles of faith of yours and proving them true. To see untainted results for one. So if they were healed by God's power they would give Him the adulation and thanks instead of you, because after all, it's about getting people to believe in Him and adore Him and turn their lives over to Him and not any little bit about you seeking something for yourself right? Lastly, one would hope you would just want to see an end to their pain or suffering. Oh this is no joking matter whatsoever and the worst thing you could accuse me of is either testing your faith or using sunlight as a disinfectant. You don't make a habit of playing the victim card often do you? That's a buzzkill too. I am under the impression you have Jesus already. Maybe something else is lacking?
FYI, it was only yesterday that the 87 year old retired Pastor and I had this encounter. So your notions of what transpired and when are way off the mark. This man is a Christian Brother, I've known him for a few years, he's a customer of mine and he did in fact ask me to pray for him. His motive was not to "he felt healed just to make you knock off your whole shtick? Maybe he just wanted to be left alone at that point?" What leads you to believe that only a "man of the cloth" can provide ministerial care and healing for another? Please point out the scripture that would suggest such a thing. "Untainted results"? What does that mean? Most Christians including this man and myself do in fact give the glory and honor to our Lord for healings and whatever else we do in the name of Jesus. For you to suggest that I "about you seeking something for yourself right?" is an inappropriate comment and downright disgusting. Why do you feel compelled to respond to every statement another makes? And in doing so, attempt to counter what they wrote? Do you believe you have greater wisdom and are more thoughtful than they?
What exactly does one have to do to reject Jesus? Does a person stand up and announce,"I REJECT JESUS?" Or do they quietly go about their lives, perceiving God in a different way? Jesus said that the kingdom is within. If that is so, and I believe it is, how could anyone spend an eternity outside the presence of the Divine inside us? Jesus also said something like "These things that I do, greater will you do?" What does that statement mean to you? I don't see the writing of men from a time and culture far removed from us as telling me anything. Transmissions received from Spirit are colored by the beliefs and biases of the ones who receive them.
It's not about "the writings of men from a time and culture far removed", it's about the Word of God and this tells us everything that He has shared. It is through revelation of the Holy Spirit that we gain wisdom and insight unto knowledge of His Will for us specifically and for humanity in general. Some confuse the terms 'interpretations' with 'revelations'. They are not synonymous. For example the Book of Revelations is exactly that, revelations, however we do attempt to interpret it.
An Inuit hunter asked the local missionary priest: "If I did not know about God and sin, would I go to hell?" "No," said the priest, "not if you did not know." "Then why," asked the Inuit earnestly, "did you tell me?" Annie Dillard
One part of that exchange wasn't about Christianity at all; it just happens to involve it after the fact. You told people in a post not to listen to the opinions of others on the bible while espousing your own opinions on the bible. The book could have been Dune or Peter Pan or Tom Sawyer; it wasn't about the book. Notice here that you can't even address this at all. The other part was more about walking your talk and backing up a claim, and that could have been about any claim someone makes. Yours just happened to be a 'Christian' claim about healing in God's name. That's really convenient. You must just be acting on that 'authority and power' fairly often. So, why no actual success stories of anyone actually being healed? Wait, I imagine you'll suddenly think of something that just coincidentally happened last Tuesday. That should be fascinating. Point conceded. There's no reason this couldn't have possibly happened. As little as I trust your story, that lack of trust is magnified immensely when it comes to your psychic powers. You really don't seem to have them. A retired electrician wouldn't ask the clerk at Starbucks to check out his fuse box if he had a problem with it. 'Ministerial care' involves being a minister as well, but you probably should have known that already. That means the person isn't pretending to feel better just because they know you're watching them. Except that you just said that not only is Jesus God, but Jesus doesn't save anymore, meaning God doesn't save anymore. That's for Jesus' apostles(which you somehow count yourself amongst). How is that giving glory and honor to God? Terrific. I suggested the opposite though, that you wouldn't want to do these things for 'for yourself'. Because I can? Because I want to? Because I actually address what another person says point by point without twisting their words and thereby can give a proper response to what requires it? Let's be clear. This is not about some person. This is not about any person. This is about the things posted by you specifically which got responded to, and apparently you're not enjoying the light being shone on them by my opinion of them, so you're trying to turn it into playing the victim again. Stop taking it personal (or at least pretending to do so). None of that helps your claims, points, counter-points, pleas or arguments. Not 'they' but I am beginning to think I'm way ahead of the curve in this exchange. Again, trying to scamper away from the topic and make it about me isn't going to help either. A reminder about those two things that started our exchange aside from your original post: While I agree completely that nobody should listen to a TV evangelist. you told people to not listen to their pastors or priests about how to think about the bible while telling them how to think about the bible. Telling them to read it for themselves is actually great advice, but you ruined it by being a hypocrite. Address this instead of trying to play a victim or trying to make it about me. You quoted a passage which supposedly gives you the power to heal in the name of Jesus. Produce some results. Not even for my benefit. Do it for Jesus. You have a whole world full of people that are ill, suffering and dying, and the power to heal is at your disposal; so what are you waiting for? Get to healing or admit(at least to yourself) there are some holes in your philosophy(belief system, if you prefer).
Wrong. God does the healing. What I wrote is revelation of what He wrote and the evidence is overwhelming as can be seen by the healings around the world by and for people just like you or me. They actually partake of what God offers, apparently you do not. Let me ask you, what successes have you seen in your method of healing and positively impacting others? I believe, I recieve; you doubt, you do without. Yes, a great slogan but it's also the truth. Praise God, praise God.
Surrounded by your interpretations which run contrary to the statement and make your point moot. Yes, we've been over that already. There you go again ignoring the question presented to you. Where is all the healing you've done? There you go again pushing your interpretations at the same time you insist people think for themselves. There you go again playing the victim card, and I've never once twisted anyone's words, certainly not yours. All of your words were quoted verbatim. Now you're a liar too. You addressed telling people not to listen to the opinions of others while giving them your opinions? Where did this happen? Interesting. what you wrote earlier was this: Flash: Jesus no longer saves, no longer heals & this Jesus is God. Remember God is Father, Son and Holy Spirit. God is one. & this We believers know that Jesus healed the sick, cast out demons, performed miracles and more. In John we read that He gave the power and authority for the apostles to do likewise. And they in turn were to make disciples of all who would believe and they likewise would carry out the same commands that Jesus did. & this Jesus has done His Work. Now, it's us Believers being indwelled with the Holy Spirit that now carry on that work. We have the power and the authority to do so in the name of Jesus. You're contradicting yourself. Revelations only happen the first time something is revealed. There's no such thing as a second hand revelation. That's you attributing (a rather vague set of) events through your own personal bias. You're entitled to your own opinions; not your own personal facts. More of the same attribution by you. You're ignoring all the people that 'partake' and suffer endlessly still. Never mind the fact that you have no idea of who is 'partaking' of what. I don't pretend I have healing powers. That's what doctors are for. As a bonus, I've never seen a healing require mysticism or folklore or the manipulation of a god for it's explanation. Actually I said bumper sticker, which is where it probably originated, if not a t-shirt. It's still ignorant of reality and not a good slogan at all unless your agenda is denial.
TRE. I previously wrote the following: "If we cannot agree on two basic principles of Christianity, then there is no reason to continue our dialogue since it would only confuse those who haven't come to a decision as to what they believe. 1) That Jesus is God. Remember God is Father, Son and Holy Spirit. God is one. 2) That the Holy Bible is the Word of God." Since neither is the case and you are a contrarian that has to find disagreement with everything I believe in and post, I shall leave you to your misconceptions and foolish meanderings and to serve your father satan. Please feel free to share your insights with those riding in your cab, I'm sure they'll tip you well.
BFOJ, I appreciate your answers to my questions. You wrote: Can you share a quote from the Bible that shows where Jesus said that? IMO that is merely an interpretation, or personal perspective rather than something that Jesus said.
I can't force you to stick around or have a discussion you don't want to have, but leaving like this just looks like sour grapes. Someone who is just a 'contrarian' wouldn't bother explaining why they disagree. I had a reason for everything I posted. As far as satan being my father, if satan is a real character, it's possible. I never met my father. That would explain a few things, actually. If I ever get someone that sounds like you in my car I absolutely will. Thanks for your concern with my income.
"And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:" [John 20:22] "He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him." [John 6:56] "He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water." [John 7:37] Other passages in the NT: "But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his." [Romans 8:9] and in context the verses before and after. "No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us." [I John 4:12]
