Special tribute to davinci and others I started this thread to avoid all other discussions on Bosnia in threads that basically don't have to do with it at all. I myself am Bosnian and sincerely I am pretty much aware of stereotypes people have on us, because of the recent war that took thousands of lives supposedly Bosniaks commonly known as Muslims only. Now, it is fact that Bosniaks were mainly hit by that war, but as much as I could see lot of you people avoid to mention others who were hit by Serb(ian) and Montenegrin paramilitary forces, including the assistance of Greek and Russian free lance (since we're in Russia and Eastern Europe thread already). Now, I basically yield the floor to all of your possible views on Bosnia and Herzegovina war and post war effects, asking you to avoid racist and chauvinist comments.
I just feel the people in Bosnia (Muslims) should just go on with their lives and become progressive muslims instead of those shari law types from the middle east. I feel Bosnia needs economic stability like their neighbors and need to have economic recovery from the war. I also feel the muslims need to re evaluate their govt as secular where religion doesn't interfere with the political rule of the people... separation of religion and state... Economic stability can only occur if there is peaceful coexistence with their neighbors.
1. First I don't see sharia middle east Muslims in Bosnia at all. If you refer to sects like wahhabbies their number is much smaller than number of 'secular' muslims. No one who really has some basic insight into Bosnia sees them anywhere. 2. Political rule of the people commonly consists of all 3 religions present in bigger extent -Islam,Catholicism and Orthodoxy. That's the only tool, that politicians can actually use after the war and it is equally used from all sides.However, when it comes to Muslims, there are tries of Reis ul lema (president of Islamic community) to interfere into politics, by some clueless 'notes' to certain politicians but no one takes them for serious. p.s. I thought that you're from Croatia (or somewhere else from former Yugoslavia) but I was obviously wrong.
Are Muslims (only) those who don't want peaceful coexistence with their 'neighbors' ? that's a simple stereotype coming from people who actually think that they got the real image of Bosnia in their heads; Men of ill judgement oft ignore the good, that lies within their hands, till they have lost it - Sophocles
How do you explain difficulties business women are experiencing in BiH if it's not religion who sets them back? Here is an interesting article for you to read. And before you think of Republika Srpska in BiH and business women, I must tell you that they are doing maybe not as well as Croatia and Serbia but still significantly better then the rest of BiH.
P.s.- your little stereotypical judgements doesn't even count in a dialogue or debate. 1) Sharia law is alive and well. It exists in the United Kingdom, Germany, Norway, and many western european countries. 2)In Croatia alone, there are many mosques being buildt in the istrian region bordering Italy much more than ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCHES. I feel the muslims have gotten special priviledges. 3) If no one takes the muslims political organization seriously, WHY DO THEY EXIST?
1.)that's law being led in families individually 2.)would you be kind enough to provide some evidence on that, never heard of that and I would like to see it as well. 3) Muslim political organization doesn't exist. Islamic community in BiH is equivalent to Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Vrhbosna and SPC and basically exists to avoid 'religion' to interfere directly into governing the country. If we're going to compare those 3 SPC interferes in politics more than any other religious organization.
Furthermore according to the Agency for Statistics in Bosnia and Herzegovina: Number of employed women in RS in 2011 is: 131 000 Number of employed women in FBiH in 2011 is: 168 000 Also number of women with university,master and doctoral degree in FBiH: 53 000 RS: 26 000 Though number of self employed women in FBiH is smaller than in RS but religion has little impact on that. Patriarchal societies are being present in these lands for 100s of years and practically religion as such doesn't play some significant role.
It doesn't come as a surprise and has no relevance, even in the States women are making under 50% of the labor force. Correct, government of the Republika Srpska is not afraid to publish data and to make necessary steps to improve women position in RS. Still, it's far better than the rest of the BiH. Frozy... what's this, a joke? To whom you think you're typing this? BiH has at least, according to estimates, one million people more than Republika Srpska and over the top you included in your numbers Croatian women in BiH (Croats make up to half million of people). Religion plays significant role in 'patriarchal' societies, face it. It is religion that prevents Muslim women in BiH to achieve more in their lives.
Well structure is not necessarily Bosniak and Croat only, Serb people live in bigger entity of BiH as well which counts them in (that includes raise of Serb population in RS after the last census in 1991 where Serb population was making 55.4 % of population in that part of the country, whereas after 1997 it is estimated that Serbs make 96.8% of population wow) Also, if they make half million of people (corats), it doesnt mean that it's about half million of women and half million of employed women. You could have at least make an effort and visit Agency for statistics official web page and than consider discussing it. Also 50% of young people are still living with their parents,study or can't find a work because of issues such as: Bosnian labor market is overwhelmed with lawyers and economists for example and 1000s of students are nowadays graduating law and economics every year(only in University of Sarajevo) and not to mention those on other state and private universities and not to mention political science and that particular degree doesn't bring any job opportunity on that field which brings over 600 KM per month. So it is education as well that makes women more unemployed. Also only few percent of population has a university degree that was taken before the war and young people in general are not well advised when choosing a field of study. So basically that has nothing to do with religion since first word in Kur'an is:study and read. That would also imply:find a work and make a money on your own.
1/ We can't see percentages of women in any of your stats 2/ 1000 students per year (Croats included once again) in two sectors are not significant in comprasion to overall population. 3/ I can't make an effort in googling every word posters type here when they don't provide source/link; I just accepted all you typed positive (regarding BiH) and negative (regarding RS) and took it from there.
no we can't,we can see estimated number and since you're so into number of population i don't see problem for you to draw conclusion on percentage of women. 2.Croats as well as Serbs are part of population of FBiH and we're comparing two entities aren't we?
1) Islamic organizations do exist. The Union of Islamic Cooperation of Nations is one example. There isn't a Christian political organization as influential as this one. 2) Sharia is a law governed my Islamic communities.
I already did it, you just proceeded to argue without ammo. Initially yes, because I expected you, as a female, to recognize problem and give appropriate comment instead of trying to cover it up. I believe women deserve to be treated equally and to have equal opportunities! Now, here are 3 universities in BiH; what can we notice here? University (Sveuciliste/ croatian word) in Mostar, BiH http://bosniaherzegovinaeducation.info//rd.asp?url=http://www.sve-mo.ba (I open page and see language options: Croatian and English University 'Dzemal Bijedic' in Mostar, BiH http://bosniaherzegovinaeducation.info//rd.asp?url=http://www.unmo.ba (note: only Latin is in use and it's the same town where ethnic Croats have their Uni) University of East Sarajevo (RS/Serbian entity) http://bosniaherzegovinaeducation.info//rd.asp?url=http://www.unssa.rs.ba (Note: two options-Cyrillic or Latin, while page is opening at Cyrillic) Obviously we don't have only 'citizens' of this or that, but clear ethnic divisions even when it comes to education, or as Greta Kuna (ethnic Croat women/Education Minister of the Federations Middle Bosnia canton) few years ago said: 'The Two Schools Under One Roof project will not be suspended because you cant mix apples and pears. Apples with apples and pears with pears, All this gives me sufficient information to look up only for a numbers and percentages of 3 ethnic groups separately. Why can't we see more business women among Muslim population in BiH if it's not religion in question?
As a female I do recognize that problem and unfortunately I used to meet lot of women having stand that university is just their passing station and that their goal is to get married and have their kids and play with them 24/7. Now, I consider it as a way of thinking and also I considered the fact that they come -not only from smaller cities but I also considered under what circumstances they were raised and in what families they were raised. That has been unfortunately a trend during past 20 years and most probably before. Religion has few impact on that,it is rather poverty. Now, to be successful business man or woman university is not important factor and fact that there are probably less muslim women among business women than croat or serb - which is not significant actually women according to 3 cultures in Bosnia and what we see from day to day - originate from cultures that don't differ to much extent are being treated equally in many points. If not religion than awareness? or fear? I think that most reliable point would be to conduct a questionnaire. Religion doesn't prohibit anywhere anything on women being business women or women being successful to make that clear and in our culture,the reason for women being less aware of their possibility to become business woman could be also: unawareness and uneducated people who are supposed to guide them and also unavoidable attitude:she's a woman -who gave her a car to drive,she can't do that. When it comes to clear ethnic divisions, they come out of 'citizens of this and that' attitude and government(s) are/were tolerating that for the sake of propaganda being spread by major ethnic parties. Greta Kuna is being set there up by HDZ Croat major nationalistic party(it was their place in government gained by elections), why would you expect her to say something different or something more peaceful?
