Part 11 of Post Your Tough Questions Regarding Christianity

As usual you have absolutely no clue what you are talking about. Even Paul, which is supposedly where the salvation by faith alone doctrine comes from, disagrees with you.

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You have denied the words of Jesus (claiming misinterpretation when Jesus clearly says "the way to eternal life is by following the 10 command" = works)

And now we have Paul saying the same thing. or is "For God will reward each of us according to what we have done" just another misinterpretation according to Fundamentalist quacks.

Are you going to continue to worship Fundamentalist dogma and ignore the Bible and continue to live in denial ?

 

Try Leviticus 27:1-7 (NKJV) =
27 Now the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, [SUP]2 [/SUP]“Speak to the children of Israel, and say to them: ‘When a man consecrates by a vow certain persons to the Lord, according to your valuation, [SUP]3 [/SUP]if your valuation is of a male from twenty years old up to sixty years old, then your valuation shall be fifty shekels of silver, according to the shekel of the sanctuary. [SUP]4 [/SUP]If it is a female, then your valuation shall be thirty shekels; [SUP]5 [/SUP]and if from five years old up to twenty years old, then your valuation for a male shall be twenty shekels, and for a female ten shekels;[SUP]6 [/SUP]and if from a month old up to five years old, then your valuation for a male shall be five shekels of silver, and for a female your valuation shall be three shekels of silver;[SUP]7 [/SUP]and if from sixty years old and above, if it is a male, then your valuation shall be fifteen shekels, and for a female ten shekels.

 

Perhaps YOU can shed some light on this very puzzling to me at least issue?

WHY....do some people find it necessary to say things like... And having good works does not mean one doesn't have to accept Jesus Christ as their Lord Savior.

I find it unsettling that those people who so adamently state they are Christian and state OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN....Only through Jesus.....Only those who believe in Jesus.....Those who do not take Jesus into their hearts will be judged and punished.....It matter's not that a person does good as if they don't believe in Jesus they will be judged...etc...etc...etc.

I am fairly certain that if Jesus actually was the son of GOD and heard such talk he would walk up to such people saying it and tell them how LOST they were.

AboveAlpha

 

Zombie worshipers are crazy. I don't worship zombies. Therefore chances are I'm not crazy.

 

On the other side: What a luck that you are not crazy - so to be crazy is still a lot of fun.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_B4iljTugo

 

Paraphrasing the pope's answer to the question: the guys don't want women cluttering up their club.

http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/pope-ban-women-priests/2013/07/29/id/517445
"But with regards to the ordination of women, the Church has spoken and says no. Pope John Paul said so with a formula that was definitive. That door is closed," he said referring to a document by the late pontiff which said the ban was part of the infallible teaching of the Church."

 

The first important Fact is that Catholics and Orthodox who make up the majority of Christians do not accept Sola Fide (Salvation by faith alone)

The second point is that whenever Jesus talks about eternal salvation/getting into the Kingdom directly it is always based on works.

3 examples

Sermon on the mount: Matt 5

Jesus is talking "directly" about getting into the kingdom of heaven and it is all based on works. Not one word about some faith in him formula.

Calling out the name of Jesus is not necessarily getting you in the gates. Only he that does good works.

Works

Again Jesus is talking "directly", answering a direct question about how to get into heaven. Jesus answer ? Works.

There are many other examples all stating works. (hence why the majority of Christianity rejects sola fide).

Mitt/ryan's response .... Ohhh .. Ohhh ... you are misinterpreting.

The problem is that folks confuse belief in the message of Jesus with belief in the idea that Jesus was God.

The idea that Jesus was God is really what this about ... Faith that Jesus was God.

 

OK, you believe in zombies. Do you believe in witches? Last week a guy in NYC thought two women were witches (like the ones in the Bible and in the Koran) who had placed a spell on him. He beat them for an hour with a hammer. One guy kept his daddy's corpse because he thought that he could resurrect it.

 

Continued:

If you read James 2, this chapter is focused on dispelling what he considered false doctrine among certain Christian sects at the time.

3 times in the chapter he states "faith without works is dead".

James was brother of Jesus and leader of the Jerusalem Church (the Church founded by the disciples of Jesus after his death).

Paul did not convert until years after the death of Jesus, was not a member of the Jerusalem Church and spent very little time with the disciples. He kind of did his own thing working with the Gentiles. The Jerusalem Church was strictly Jews .. Judeo Christians.

They had different philosophies and butted heads on a number of occasions. James is directly addressing what he considers false doctrine (presumably from Paul although Paul is not named directly). The false doctrine he is addressing is sola fide.

From a historical standpoint the Pauline Christians (Gentiles) and the Judeo Christians became further and further apart as the years past. As you move further in time Mark, Matt, Luke/Acts, John ( Mark was written sometime around 65-80 and John not until after the turn of the first century 90-120) the books become more and more anti Jewish.

This is a reflection of the schism between the Pauline and Judeo Christians. Eventually the Judeo Christians (Jerusalem Church) die out because of persecution. With them goes their ideas on what Jesus was really about. Some claim that the Ebionites were Judeo Christians.

Shortly after Constantine the sect that won started persecuting any Christian group that disagreed with them. Over the years these differing sects were declared heretical and of course there was much book burning.

The winning group gets to write the history books and so when the first Bible was put together in included only the manuscripts that conformed to their beliefs.

Over time as doctrine developed passages were altered, interpolated, edited, and additions were made to make the Bible agree better with the dogma of the day. Some books were removed altogether.

Now a days the dogma has evolved to the point where it does not much relate to what remains of the message of Jesus in the Bible.

This is an outstanding documentary if you are interested: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/religion/

 

If I would know that you don't know that Germans don't know that we don't have any form of humor then I would say if I would say "no" then you could start to laugh.

I'm asking myselve how a man who is calling other people "crazy" is asking seriosly such a nonsense. Sure I believe in witches.

Witches in the bible? Seems to me I should start to read the bible again: the best textes are always hidden in the deepest dark of the printing ink.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17hEcSsv57g

He did what? Okay - the dark english humor finds sometimes not in the right moment a stop.

What a luck that I don't live in your world.

 

Than You for taking the time to give me a very comprehensive detailed reply.

I have been saying very much the same.

Some people are so wrapped up in Dogma and in attempting to memorize word for word Biblical Text that has probably changed dramatically from what it once was that they no longer CONCENTRATE UPON THE MESSAGE AND THE MEANING.

An example of this is I posted that Jesus stated something and I described what he said in general terms and my description kept the true meaning intact....only to jumped on by a few screaming JESUS NEVER SAID THAT!!!

Basically I said that Jesus told people...it does not matter whether you believe in me....just believe in what I DO!

AboveAlpha

 

How can you believe in what a person does if you don't believe in him? In the case of Jesus no one has any real proof that he ever did anything.

 

I am AGNOSTIC.

I believe in the teachings and message that are accredited to Jesus.

It really doesn't matter who wrote them or if a GOD exists.

Probability dictates a VERY HIGH PROBABILITY that a GOD does not exist.

Probability also dictates a very low probability that a GOD does exist.

But it cannot be conclusively proven either way.

AboveAlpha

 

Heliocentrims was since a long time a kind of "standard modell of astronomy" in the catholic universities of Europe - even when Galileo was a little child. The problem around Galileo Galilei was a problem of an overgeneralisations of thoughts. In a kind of pi-bill-justice some idiots - sorry: judges, but it's really difficult not to call them idiots - tried to make clear that Galileo had no right to say the planet turns around the own axis (The directions "East" and "West" are by the way a result of this rotation) . Galileo accepted this, because he was convinced a "pi-bill" is not able to change the truth: the earth turns around independent from the words of human beings. The other side: Before this had happened Galileo provocated everyone with his arrogance "I'm the only one who's right - all others are wrong". Indeed believed Galileo for example not in the results of Johannes Kepler - even Albert Einstein was sad about, when he found this out. So he was indeed Like everyone else a normal human being - sure a genius - but also a genius makes mistakes: everyone makes mistakes. Unfortunatelly in this time "to be in the truth" meant to be in the truth as well in philosophy, science, theology and politics - and this made this arrogance of Galileo to a dangerous destabalizing element. I everyone thought he was the onlx one who's in the truth - how could authorities stabalize the world any longer? Everyone lived in fear of wars - that was maybe the deeper motivation of the people who acused him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GRrDTsKWd8

 

The bible says man and women are made with the same living matter in the same spirit of god - what you can see in the way how god created the more beautiful side of us human beings: Eve. And we see it in the way that a married man and a married woman are melted together into the same unity (by their free will) - so it would be impossible to say women are subservient to men, if not men would be also subservient to women.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_TMqACTmzI

 

"Galileo had it coming"......it IS remarkable the levels to which apologia for the Catholic Church will sink.

 

So basically,

A. "Babies aren't 'innocent'"....which undercuts all the "innocent life" arguments the "pro-lifers' make.

B. "God is Boss....so if He wants to slaughter people by the bushel, it's His right....you don't question it, punk!"

C. "Genocide was merciful".....the boys at the Nuremburg Trials should have tried that one.

and D. "God MIGHT have provided salvation for those Amalekite babies....so really...no harm, no foul"


Gosh, Mitt, you have really convinced me to give up my rational and thoughtful ways and become a devoted Believer.

 

The Catholic church didn't have to sink to any level except to save Galileo from his rival or lynch mob that were out to get him. Thanks to the CC his works were preserved and years later was resurrected and Galileo would be exonerated to the envy of his enemies specially in the secular sector would be put in shame as Galileo would be recognize and declare by the Catholic church as the Father of Modern Science.

It is just so shameless just how many anti Christians would sell their soul to the devil to fight against truth.

There were no babies involved only wicked adult people. Modern science have now unearth many massed graves of babies and young women that they believed were use as human sacrifices by wicked men.

God is boss and He will slaughter all wicked people and protect the innocent and good people and the wicked will defy Him.

The boys at Nuremberg deserved what they get = death tried by men not God.

The Amalekite babies are now in Heaven not in Hell.

 

"We put Galileo on trial....to save him from the lynch mob". ROFLMAO

Your opinion. In mind? You've sold yours...to the Catholic Church.

The Amalekites had no children? So how did they survive as a people?!?!?!? And why not just let them die off of old age, if they were not reproducing?!?!? Logic...it IS a bi'ach.

God slaughters people who defy him....wow, that really shows "superior morality', huh?

They had excuses for their "Church"....and rationalizations for why their genocide was "holy"....too.

You just said above there WERE no Amalekite babies....they were "all adults"....or did you forget?

 

YHWH values women at 30 shekels, men at 50 shekels. Also, YHWH doesn't allow women agency (can't teach in Churches, are unclean during menstruation, have no voice in whom they can marry, etc.). So, yeah, Christianity is mos-def misogynist.

That makes no sense at all. Literally none. If someone was equally intelligent, capable, or equally worthy, than they would have equal opportunity for leadership.

Weird how that benefited the priesthood as it existed to say that it was divinely-ordained and that it couldn't brook any challenge from at least half the population. :v

 

What did you not understand?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKW3iKYzVk0

 

If you had done some thorough research as to why men were valued at 50 compared to women valued at 30 you wouldn't have misinterpreted it to mean that God viewed women as second-class citizens at best or chattel at worst.

Your exact words are quoted below.

Now let me the explain the correct reason why men were valued higher than women.

When a man consecrates by a vow certain persons to the Lord there was a valuation process needed to be followed, we see that in Leviticus 27:3-8 the redemption price for men, women, and children were different based on age and gender.

What did it mean to consecrate a person to the Lord? It could be done either for one's self, or on behalf of another (such as consecrating a child unto the Lord). This was a completely voluntary act, meant to demonstrate that this person was totally given to God.

When a vow was made, the amount of the offering as I said above varied based on age and gender. Below is the valuation list.

Males 60 and over: 15 shekels
Females 60 and over: 10 shekels
Males ages 20—60: 50 shekels
Females ages 20—60: 30 shekels
Males ages 5—20: 20 shekels
Females ages 5—20: 10 shekels
Males ages 0—5: 5 shekels
Females ages 0—5: 3 shekels

Clearly, the males 20—60 years of age required the highest price, and males were more expensive to dedicate than females. The reason appears to be based on the person’s ability to work in an agricultural society and on how many years that person could work. A male aged 20—60 was seen as someone who could perform the best labor, therefore resulting in the highest price. Those over 60 and under 20 could do some work, but not as much, traditionally. Those 5 years old and under required the lowest price, as they would have been unable to work much or at all.

So again it was nothing to do with God viewing women as 2nd class citizens at best or chattel at worst as you seem to believe it to be but it had all to do based on the person's ability to work in an agricultural society and on how many years that person could work.

As we all know, generally speaking, it is a fact that men are physically stronger than women, anyone denying this known fact is, shall we say, a dishonest person.

God sees all of us as equals. The New Testament notes different roles for men and women but affirms the equality of both.

Scripture tells us, "Faith in Christ Jesus is what makes each of you equal with each other, whether you are a Jew or a Greek, a slave or a free person, a man or a woman."---Galatians 3:28 CEV